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Dark Heresy Beta Core Rulebook» Forums » Reviews

Subject: What's Changed In The 2.0 Beta? rss

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Because the PDF released by Fantasy Flight is a beta product this won't be a full review. If the Only War Beta is any indication there will be a lot of changes by the time the final version goes to print, so reviewing the product as it stands seems pointless. Instead I'll look at the main proposed changes between Dark Heresy 1.0 and the 2.0 Beta so you know what to expect. I'm going to assume you have at least a passable working knowledge of Dark Heresy and the 40k line. If not I'd suggest you look at a couple of reviews on this site, then come back, or just wait for the final version to arrive.

Full disclaimer, the Beta Rulebook is a long document (350 odd pages), and I've had about 5 hours to read over it. I tried to be careful and thorough, but I may have made mistakes. If so I'll edit them as I discover them.

What To Expect

First up, any notion that this is is a subtle set of tweaks designed to bring Dark Heresy in line with Only War should be dismissed. There are numerous significant changes to the way the game works here, and so if you adore Dark Heresy and everything about it you will likely not enjoy what's coming. If however, like me, you think that Dark Heresy is a good system but one that suffers through age and unnecessary bloat, then read on!

The Basics

The core d100 mechanic remains unchanged. You are still rolling against a Characteristic (Stat), usually modified by levels in a Skill, looking to get under your target number. The way Degrees of Success are calculated has been simplified, however. You gain one automatic Degree of Success for passing a roll, and additional Degrees of Success are awarded based on the number of 'tens' under your target number you rolled on the d100 (units are ignored). So if you need a 66 and rolled a 23, you get 5 Degrees of Success (1 for passing, 4 because 6-2 is 4).

Skills now tested against whatever characteristic is judged most appropriate by the GM. So you could roll a traditional Stealth (Ag) test to sneak past someone, but trying to remain undetected for hours on end in the same place without moving might be Stealth (WP) or Stealth (T).  There is a table of suggested Characteristics for skills, but there's nothing stopping a GM from getting creative.

Previously certain Characteristics were used considerably more frequently or were just more useful than others (I'm looking at you, Agility), while some Characteristic were necessary point sinks (Toughness) but were utilised very infrequently. The 2.0 Beta's dynamic use of characteristics follows the lead of systems like CORTEX, and I think it's a significant improvement. A cunning GM should constantly test players with interesting combinations, and there's no longer an assumption of excellence with a few ranks in a skill and a good testing Characteristic. Sure you might be Rank 3 Medicae, but if a particular piece of healing requires Agility to manoeuvre a small suture into position and you put all your points in Intelligence, you're not going to ace it.

Skills have five ranks: 1 (-10), 2 (+0), 3(+10), 4 (+20) and 5 (+30). A character's Skills all start at Rank 1, and the concept of Advanced Skills is gone. That means any character can test any skill, albeit at -10, but with any Rank 1 test the GM can rule that the task is simply not possible. For example, a Tech-Use test to fix an Archeotech Lasgun might be beyond your Cleric who has never seen the inside of a normal Lasgun before, let alone a hallowed Artifact. In this sense the idea of Advance Skills remains, but you don't have absurd situations like someone being unable to attempt to Blather because they didn't have the Skill.

There are now only 21 Skills. Dark heresy 1.0 had 48 Skills, and many of them were utterly useless, or far, far too specialised. Wrangling, for example. This is a really good change, and follows the later systems in paring down the Skill list to the essentials.

Skills are now broken down into lists of moves, each one costing a certain number of Action Points (see next bullet). So in Acrobatics you have Contortionist, Horizontal Jump, Vertical Jump and Manoeuvring. Charm allows Brag and Captivate. You can still take a general test against a Skill, but these moves, for lack of a better term, are special abilities you can try using the appropriate Skill. So the Swimming move comes under Athletics and calls for an Athletics (T) test, while Climbing is an Athletics (St) Test move.

Action Points. This is a big one. Full and Half actions are no more. Structured (as opposed to Narrative) Time now revolves around an Action Point system. You have FOUR Action Points per turn to spend, with each action costing a certain number of AP, often 1. To list some examples, Aim costs 1AP and adds +10 to your next attack. This is cumulative, so you could Aim three times for +30 and still Attack. Moving a distance equal to your Agility Bonus is 1 AP. Standing from Prone is 1AP. A Called Shot is 1AP, and is no longer part of your Attack. There are more of these, so I won't list them all.

Attack Actions (Ranged or Melee) can only be undertaken once per turn. You can spend a variable number of AP on them, however. This has the effect of increasing your potential number of shots. In Dark Heresy 1.0 each weapon had a slash line, S/6/10 for example, measuring the number of shots it could fire in Single Shot, Semi Auto and Full Auto modes respectively. Now a weapon has a single Rate of Fire (ROF) stat. A Lasgun is 2, for example.

So, say you spend 1 AP on your attack with that Lasgun. You multiply your ROF by the number of AP spent. Your maximum number of shots is therefore 2. If you spent 2AP this becomes 4 shots, 4 AP and it's 8 shots. However, you still only fire a number of shots equal to the Degrees of Success rolled. The RoF is simply an indication of how many shots you can potentially fire.

Melee combat works the same way. You do a number of attacks equal to your DoS, limited by your RoF. Some Melee weapons RoF is dependent on your Agility Bonus. A chainsword is AGB-2 for example. So if your Death Cultist has Agility 50, and spends 3 Action Points on an Attack, that's 9 potential attacks, if you can roll the DoS!

Also, note that Evade (a combination of Dodge and Parry) uses WS for Melee attacks, WP for Psychic Attacks, and Agility for everything else. It costs 1AP! You can only make one per turn, but if you use all your AP early you won't be able to Evade. Something to bear in mind for character acting high in the Initiative order.

Character Creation

You still with me? Head spinning yet? Mine too! Let's look at Character Creation.

Wounds as Hit Points no longer exist. I'll leave that bombshell to sink in and I'll circle back round to Combat in a while! Remember, Wounds as Hit Points are gone.

2.0 introduces a new Characteristic (Stat), Influence. This is a measure of your character’s reputation and resources. Influence is basically a personal version of Profit Factor, and it will increase or decrease depending on the result of missions. Each character now rolls acquisition tests based on their personal Influence.

Your Characteristic budget has increased. In 1.0 you rolled 2d10 for a Characteristic and added 20, with some Characteristics modified up or down (usually +5 or -10) based on Home World. In 2.0 you roll 2d10 and add 25, but for Characteristics positively modified by your Home World you roll 3d10 and choose the best two results, and for Characteristics negatively modified by your Home World you roll 3d10 and choose the two worst results. While the numbers appear slightly higher at first glance, those worried about power creep should remember there is now a 10th Characteristic to populate.

You also have the option of a Point Buy system. If you take this option each Characteristic starts at 30, and you have 60 points to spend. Characteristics positively modified by your Home World start at 35, while Characteristics negatively modified by your Home World start a 25. Regardless of its starting value, 45 is the maximum any Characteristic can reach. This will result in slightly more powerful characters, and give you greater control over how they are built. But remember, too, with Skills tested against variable Characteristics, the old rules are out of the window. You can't simply pump Agility and be guaranteed to be great at Stealth.

2.0 also adds a more choice to character creation. Previously you choose a Home World, then a Career (Class). 2.0 adds an extra step. You choose a Home World, which provides Characteristic Modifiers, determines your Fate Point range, and gives you a Bonus and a Penalty (Signature Trauma).

You then choose a Background. This indicates what your life was before joining the Inquisition. Adeptus Arbites, Imperial Guard, Outcast, and others. Backgrounds provide some Starting Skills, Talents and Equipment. They also give you a Bonus and a Penalty (Signature Malignancy).

Finally you select a Role (Class). Available Roles are Assassin, Chirurgeon (Surgeon, Medic, Scientist, Tech-Priest), Desperado (Scum, Outcast, Drifter), Hierophant (one dedicated to the Imperial Creed), Mystic (Warp Touched), Sage (Autosavant, Calculus Logi, Clerk), Seeker (Detective / Interrogator) and Warrior (duh).

You'll notice that there's more scope (and more vagueness) here. That's a good thing in my book. Instead of being a Cleric, and thus a Priest, a Hierophant could be an orator, a confessor, a cleric, a wise man, a demagogue. All these things were possible before, true, but the book makes it much clearer that a Role is a general approach, not a specific Career.

Finally you get 500 experience to spend and you can acquire a number of items up to your starting Influence bonus, with an availability of -10 or higher. The words used to describe availability (Scarce, Very Rare, Common) are gone, replaced by a modifier number. Much cleaner, much simpler. Another good change.

Character Advancement

So far so good, but Character Advancement has changed too! Here's what you need to know.

Characteristic raises are now restricted by Rank (level), and the cost is determined by a multiplier and the Characteristic's current bonus. For example, let's say you have an Assassin with 40 in every Characteristic. The Assassin's Weapon Skill Multiplier is 100. To raise WS from 40 to 50 would cost 100 x 4 = 400. However, Fellowship has a multiplier of 150. To raise FEL from 40 to 50 would cost 150 x 4 = 600. Multipliers are either 50, 100, or 150.

Skill advances work in a similar way with an advance costing the current rank of the Skill x a multiplier. Remember, Skills are ranked 1-5, with 1 being untrained (-10) and 5 being +30. So to go from 2 to 3 in Stealth with a 150 modifier would cost 300xp (150 x 2). Skill modifiers can be 100, 150, or 200.

Talents are now arranged in Trees. There are 11 Trees: Defence, Investigation, Melee, Mental Fortitude, Mobility, Pilot, Ranged, Resilience, Social, Technology, General. Each character starts with access to the first Talent in any Tree, but you have to work through a tree in a logical order to reach the really powerful talents. Anyone who's ever played a Computer RPG will be right at home.

Here's the Defence Tree:



So looking at that Tree you can't take Counter Attack (free attack after Parrying) until you have taken Evasive (to allow you to parry) and Disarm (allowing you to know away a Foe's Weapon). That's logical.

Do note that there are branches in Trees, so to continue my previous example Evasive branches once into Disarm and then Counter Attack, but also into Hard Target (can Evade while moving) and Step Aside (Can move out of Combat while Evading). If you wanted to take Nimble you would need to either take the left branch through Hard Target and Step Aside, or the right one through Disarm and Counter Attack. You don't need to do both.

Talents have a fixed cost, regardless of character. This gives you much more freedom to customise, as many of the best abilities in the game are Talents. In 1.0 your Talents were restricted by Class, but in 2.0 you have total freedom. So your Remembrancer could be damn handy in a fight, or a Hot-Shot Pilot, but you'd be sacrificing elsewhere for that diversity. However Talents also have a pre-requisite, usually a minimum Characteristic, which restricts things a bit.

Finally let's address the 50,000lb Gorilla in the room when talking about Character Advancement – the Inquisitor.

The game has three Elite Advances: Inquisitor, Psyker, and Untouchable. The Untouchable only costs 300xp and you can start play as one. A Psyker is a bit harder to become, requiring 300 experience and WP 40. Also if you don't have the Adeptus Astra Telepathica Background your character is not a Sanctioned Psyker, which will be interesting. Again you could start play as a Psyker.

However the Inquisitor is a different beast. To become an Inquisitor you need to spend 1,000 experience and you need Influence 75. Remember the new Influence Characteristic? It starts at a maximum of 45, so you need to gain at least 30 Influence before you can be an Inquisitor. Finally you need the Emperor's Blessing, and this is the real kicker. You can only be made an Inquisitor by another Inquisitor. Here a sizeable sidebar encourages the GM to think very carefully about including a PC Inquisitor in their campaign, as it has the potential to disrupt the balance of the group. So for those worried about Inquisitors and crazy power levels, yes, you can play an Inquisitor, but it's an option that's there for a group capable of supporting it, after a decent amount of play. It's not indicative of a baseline Ascension level game.

Damage and Injury

Right, we're almost there. Promise! Hang in there. The last thing I want to look at is how Damage is calculated (yup, it's changed) and how Injuries are handled (yup, that too!) Remember the bombshell above? Wounds as Hit Points no longer exist. So how does that change combat?

When you hit with an attack you roll the Damage of the weapon as before. The values remain largely the same, so a Lasgun does d10+2E Damage. Then you calculate the Defence of the target, which is Toughness Bonus + Armour. You reduce the Armour Value of the Target by the Penetration of the weapon, then you compare Damage to remaining Defence. If Damage exceeds Defence you do a Wound.

A Wound is a new concept that applies an effect to the target, and also makes future Wounds (and their effects) worse. Every time a character takes a Wound they suffer a Wound Effect. To determine the Effect you take the total damage dealt by the hit (Damage minus Defence) add 5 for each Wound currently effecting that Character, and add 10 for each Critical Wound currently effecting that character. Then you consult the Wound Effect Table and apply the result.

Let's use an example to clarify things, as it's a huge change. Say I shoot at a Cultist with an Impact weapon and I hit him in the Head. I do 13 total Damage, and after modifying for Penetration his Defence is 7. Damage is larger than Defence, so I do a Wound. The difference was 6, so I look at the Body Impact Wound Effect Table and apply the 6 result:

Quote:
6 or lower – Miraculously, the strike glances off the target’s head without causing serious harm. The attack does, however, leave an angry bruise on his face.


So I did nothing? True and not true. You didn't impair the Cultist's ability to fight, but remember the next attack is going to be much nastier. Let's say you fire again, this time doing slightly better with a difference between Damage and Defence of 8. The Cultist is already suffering from a Wound from your last attack, so you add 5 to the 8 for a total of 15. Let's see what happens:

Quote:
13 - The target staggers and fights for concentration as the attack smashes into the bridge of his nose, shattering the cartilage and shaking his skull. The target suffers 2 fatigue and must make a –20 Toughness test; if he fails, he is Dazed for a number of rounds equal to his degrees of failure.


Now we're talking! Let's say this poor Cultist is hit a third time with the same attack. 8+5+5 = 18:

Quote:
18 - 19 - With a sickening crack, the blow puts a hairline fracture in the target’s skull, the intense pressure briefly shutting down his optic nerves. The target suffers Intelligence Decay (1d5+2) and is Blinded for 1d5 rounds.


As you can see the results get progressively worse, and as you take Wounds you'll quickly become incapacitated as the results are cumulative. So our Cultist is suffering with 2 Fatigue, is likely Dazed, as well as having Intelligence Decay (penalty to his Intelligence Characteristic) and the Blinded condition. He's in trouble. These tables go up to about 30, and generally anything above 26 is death.

Remember too that if you hit 6 times with your Lasgun because you spent a lot of AP on your attack, you're going to be applying six separate hits, doing six separate Wound Effects.

Evading (Dodging and Parrying) follows the Only War model. You evade a number of attacks equal to the Degrees of Success on your Evasion Roll. Say you get hit four times by a Cultist. if you roll 4 DoS, all of these are ignored. This helps mitigate the potential for more attacks caused by the variable attack AP.

Recovering Wounds has, understandably, changed. You recover one Wound a day, if you rest for at least 6 hours. Alternatively someone with Medicae can attempt First Aid, which uses 2 Action Points. A success either removes a Normal Wound or converts a Critical Wound into a normal one. Try and stay on top of those things.

Righteous Fury. You guess it, Righteous Fury has changed. If you roll a 10 on any dice when rolling to hit, assuming the attack hits you do a Critical Wound. As we have seen Critical Wounds make you more likely to take damage from future attacks because they add +10, not +5, to the Wound Effect. They are also harder to heal. Additionally, Novice level adversaries are auto-killed by Criticals, but cannot inflict them. So if you roll a 10 against a basic Cultist, he's dead – move on.

Fatigue works like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (3rd Edition). You now compare the level of fatigue to your Characteristics. If any Characteristic has a bonus lower than your current fatigue level that Characteristic is fatigued. Any Action that uses a Fatigued Characteristic costs an additional Action Point. Additionally, if you ever gain more Fatigue than your TB and WPB added together, you pass out.

Conclusions

Overall I'm impressed. Very impressed. Yes, much of the 1.0 material will be invalidated or quite hard to convert. That's unfortunate. However, Dark Heresy was showing its age in the face of newer iterations like Only War. I expected FFG to simply bring Dark Heresy in line with those newer Rulesets, streamlining Skills, adding in the new Combat options and calling it a day. They've done much, much more.

The proposed 2.0 Ruleset strips away lot of the bloat of Dark Heresy allowing a much more elegant and modern system to emerge, one that retains the core values and mechanics of the original while allowing for much more flexibility, both in Character Creation, Character Advancement and Character Action. It's still crunchy, make no mistake, but the flow is better.

Of all the proposed changes Combat, and specifically the new Wound Effects, is something I'll need to experience before I pass judgement. I think FFG are hopeful it'll be swift and exciting, but you will need the Wound tables to hand every time you hit. Pages of print outs will be required and I'm a bit worried by that. Plus I'm not entirely convinced the underlying principle is a good idea, but I'll report back in the comments below once I've road tested the rules.

So there we have it. It's a lot to take in, and veteran players will really have to readjust. But so far I'm optimistic that the bulk of these changes are for the better. Hopefully this review helps you get a grip on the Beta - typing it up certainly helped me understand what is changing. Remember too that it is a Beta test. Things can and will change. If you feel strongly about anything, get in touch with FFG (darkheresybeta@fantasyflightgames.com) and make your case!
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Donald Gardner
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Awesome review!

And I am now fully psyched for this
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Nicola Gambetti
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Excellent review!
Thank you for taking your time to write it as soon as the new edition was announced!

Although there are things I immediately fell in love with, such as the wound system replacing hit points, I'm still not fully convinced by the new rules: I've the feeling the characters are a bit too overpowered now.
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Interesting, thanks for the review. I'm going to comment on a few points, just for clarification. Your review is great to point out the big differences and I have to say I do like some changes (e.g. the talents). So this is in no means a way to criticize the review, just for my general understanding.

Quote:
There are now only 21 Skills. Dark heresy 1.0 had 48 Skills, and many of them were utterly useless, or far, far too specialised. Wrangling, for example. This is a really good change, and follows the later systems in paring down the Skill list to the essentials.

Skills are now broken down into lists of moves, each one costing a certain number of Action Points (see next bullet). So in Acrobatics you have Contortionist, Horizontal Jump, Vertical Jump and Manoeuvring. Charm allows Brag and Captivate. You can still take a general test against a Skill, but these moves, for lack of a better term, are special abilities you can try using the appropriate Skill. So the Swimming move comes under Athletics and calls for an Athletics (T) test, while Climbing is an Athletics (St) Test move.


So basically we probably have the same number, but now divided in main skills and sub skills? Why would swimming be an Athletics toughness test and not an Athletics Strength test? Is this something decided by the GM?



Quote:
Melee combat works the same way. You do a number of attacks equal to your DoS, limited by your RoF. Some Melee weapons RoF is dependent on your Agility Bonus. A chainsword is AGB-2 for example. So if your Death Cultist has Agility 50, and spends 3 Action Points on an Attack, that's 9 potential attacks, if you can roll the DoS!


I like the action point system and how it interacts with rate of fire. But this? Say I use 2 AP on aim and 2 AP on melee attack, I then have 6 potential attacks/hits at a +20 melee bonus roll? With a chainsword? That seems awfully overpowered. And why would the rate of attack of a chainsword depend on agility? It seems like a heavy weapon instead of finesse, so it would more depend on strength no? Does the opponent roll 1 evade for the melee attack (and avoid multiple hits) or once for each one?

They should really call it rate of attack instead of rate of fire...


Quote:
You then choose a Background. This indicates what your life was before joining the Inquisition. Adeptus Arbites, Imperial Guard, Outcast, and others. Backgrounds provide some Starting Skills, Talents and Equipment. They also give you a Bonus and a Penalty (Signature Malignancy).


Is there enough choice? I'm worried that the backgrounds would always go with certain roles, making them superfluous. E.g. the Adeptus Astra Telepathica background. You have to take that one if your role is a sanctioned psyker. So why not have a sanctioned psyker role and be gone with the background?


Quote:
Finally you select a Role (Class). Available Roles are Assassin, Chirurgeon (Surgeon and Biological Scientist), Desperado (Scum), Hierophant (one dedicated to the Imperial Creed), Mystic (Warp Touched), Sage (Autosavant, Calculus Logi, Clerk), Seeker (detective / interrogator) and Warrior.


Where would the tech priest fit in?

Quote:
You'll notice that there's more scope (and more vagueness) here. That's a good thing in my book. Instead of being a Cleric, and thus a Priest, a Hierophant could be an orator, a confessor, a cleric, a wise man, a demagogue. All these things were possible before, true, but the book makes it much clearer that a Role is a general approach, not a specific Career.


Is there a list of "sub-roles"? If I select Hierophant, do I know all possible options? If not, then this might be too vague for me. How would anyone without thorough 40K knowledge know all options that fit a certain role?


Quote:
The words used to describe availability (Scarce, Very Rare, Common) are gone, replaced by a modifier number. Much cleaner, much simpler. Another good change.


I guess I'll have to see it, but very rare to me is easier understood than a number.



I should give combat a try, but it looks interesting to say the least.
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Kwakkie wrote:
Interesting, thanks for the review. I'm going to comment on a few points, just for clarification. Your review is great to point out the big differences and I have to say I do like some changes (e.g. the talents). So this is in no means a way to criticize the review, just for my general understanding.


No worries, I won't be offended! I didn't want to write much more detail for fear of the review becoming unwieldy, but I'm happy to answer questions as there's no way I could cover everything.

Kwakkie wrote:
So basically we probably have the same number, but now divided in main skills and sub skills? Why would swimming be an Athletics toughness test and not an Athletics Strength test? Is this something decided by the GM?


You probably have more options now compared to 1.0, if you count sub-skills, but the xp footprint is substantially smaller. You don't have to spend 200 xp on Wrangling to be able to Wrangle. Then 200 xp on Survival to be able to make Survival tests. Then 200xp on Tracking to be able to Track. You put 200 xp in Survival and you can test Survival, plus you have access to the Scrounging, Tracking, and Wrangling moves.

Swimming as a Toughness test makes perfect sense to me. Swimming isn't about raw strength, but Stamina. And yes, each sub-skill lists the characteristic the test calls for.

Kwakkie wrote:
I like the action point system and how it interacts with rate of fire. But this? Say I use 2 AP on aim and 2 AP on melee attack, I then have 6 potential attacks/hits at a +20 melee bonus roll? With a chainsword? That seems awfully overpowered. And why would the rate of attack of a chainsword depend on agility? It seems like a heavy weapon instead of finesse, so it would more depend on strength no? Does the opponent roll 1 evade for the melee attack (and avoid multiple hits) or once for each one?


I'd have a Chainsaw's attacks based on Str too, and something like a Sword based on Ag. I have no answer for that one but to say this is a Beta. Stuff will change.

To your other question, a single Evade attack will remove hits equal to the degrees of success, like Only War. So if you evade my 4 attacks, and roll 4 degrees of success, I don't hit at all.

Kwakkie wrote:
Is there enough choice? I'm worried that the backgrounds would always go with certain roles, making them superfluous. E.g. the Adeptus Astra Telepathica background. You have to take that one if your role is a sanctioned psyker. So why not have a sanctioned psyker role and be gone with the background?


If you list just Backgrounds the options can seem a bit sparse. I'd like a few more options, honestly. The available backgrounds are: Adeptus Administratum, Adeptus Arbites, Adeptus Astra Telepathica, Adeptus Mechanicus, Imperial Guard, Outcast. However, when combined with the Home Worlds and Roles you have a good amount of options. You know more will be coming in expansions.

Also, yes, if you want to be a Sanctioned Psyker you need the Adeptus Astra Telepathica background, but Sanctioned Psyker is an Elite advance and is (as far as I can see) the only example of something requiring a specific Background. I wouldn't worry about certain Backgrounds being 'required'.

Why not have a Sanctioned Psyker Role and be gone with the Backgrounds? Choice. I'd rather have more of it than less. I'd rather be able to play a non-sanctioned Psyker if I like. I like the suite of Skills and Talents and Disadvantages you build up with different Home Worlds and Backgrounds, it gives you more control over your starting character. More Diversity, too. My Tech-Priest could be very different to yours, after a different Home World, different Background and spending the 500xp for new characters on different things.

Kwakkie wrote:
Where would the tech priest fit in?


Chirurgeon. I wasn't clear enough here. The Chirurgeon Role encompasses those experimenting with Biology (think an Imperial Guard Medicae) and also those experimenting with replacing it (Adeptus Mechanicus).

Kwakkie wrote:
Is there a list of "sub-roles"? If I select Hierophant, do I know all possible options? If not, then this might be too vague for me. How would anyone without thorough 40K knowledge know all options that fit a certain role?


No list, but lots of information is given in the description for the Role. There's a fair bit of text for each one listing some available choices, good for those not familiar with the 40 universe.

Kwakkie wrote:
I guess I'll have to see it, but very rare to me is easier understood than a number.


In 1.0 you had a number assigned to the word anyway. Remove the word and it's cleaner, to my mind at least. No checking if Very Rare was -30 or -20 when you are acquiring something.

There's no doubt that this Beta won't be for everyone. As I said if you're a huge fan of how DH 1.0 works, this won't be for you. I like the majority of what they've done here. It feels more modern, more tight, more flexible and more logical.

Combat is so radically different I want to try it out before passing judgement, as I have some concerns about its speed and fiddliness. I think they are going for slick and realistic, but Combat seems a bit too slow and table intensive right now. I'll update here once I've tried it out, and I know Stelio is writing a review of the Beta more from the perspective of a 1.0 fan. I'm firmly in the camp that considers 1.0 a good game, but one thoroughly in need of an overhaul and some modernisation, so always bear that in mind when considering my opinions.
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Karl Larsson
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Reading through it myself, but finding little time to discuss it since I am starting up two pbfs at the moment.

As with skills and subskills. The old bersion had it the same way. I am nit a great fan, in a way it means that something you sometime find in the system part of the book (rules for trading for instance), is now found in the skills part of the book. The way lore is handled, is very clever I think.
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Karl Larsson
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Seriously considering doing this as a pbf, so I can get a feel for it.
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I'd be in for that Karl.
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Jens Melinder
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Thanks for a great review. Looks very interesting, but may still be too crunchy for my taste.

karlkrlarsson wrote:
Seriously considering doing this as a pbf, so I can get a feel for it.

Count me in for that too!
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thecameronin wrote:
Of all the proposed changes Combat, and specifically the new Wound Effects, is something I'll need to experience before I pass judgement. I think FFG are hopeful it'll be swift and exciting, but you will need the Wound tables to hand every time you hit. Pages of print outs will be required and I'm a bit worried by that. Plus I'm not entirely convinced the underlying principle is a good idea, but I'll report back in the comments below once I've road tested the rules.


After running the Beta Adventure for my group I ended up writing another review, solely on how the combat mechanics work in practice. It's in Geek Mod now.
 
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Sean Publius
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"Then you calculate the Defence of the target, which is Toughness Bonus + Armour. You reduce the Defence (NOT just the armour value) of the Target by the Penetration of the weapon, then you compare Damage to Defence. If Damage exceeds Defence you do a Wound."

On page 133 in the upper right column it states, "When determining the defence value of a hit location stuck by the weapon, the number of armour points added to the defence value is reduced by the penetration of the weapon."
So it seems that penetration still comes off just armour and not Defence. Did you see it state otherwise elsewhere in the rules? Thanks

Appreciate the review, nice work.
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Not sure where I picked up the idea, but it's wrong. I'll edit the text.
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