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Subject: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Closed - Winners Coming Soon rss

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Jonathan Warren
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
The problem is that the publishers of the game are purposely skewing the voting in their favour by using mailing lists to urge their backers to vote. That cannot be fair to an unpublished PnP.

Lets take a game like Brew Crafters. A PnP was released to coincide with the Kickstarter campaign, so potential backers could try before they buy. Is it fair that Brew Crafters can technically be nominated for the best PnP award? And lets not forget that DHMG could potentially e-mail all 1,385 backers and ask that they vote for the game.
(Please note that Brew Crafters has not been nominated and that DHMG has therefore not abused Kickstarter in this way, and by singling out Brew Crafters I am in no way saying that DHMG would resort to this underhand practice )

Look at D-Day Dice. Yes, that was a PnP before it was picked up by a publisher, but was it fair that the publisher e-mailed 2000+ backers asking them to vote for the game, most of them had never even played the PnP. It is worth pointing out that it was also a nominee in 2010 (it didn't win that year). The new system will help combat games being nominated over multiple years, so the example of DDD should not happen again. DDD was a PnP back in 2009 so to have it win the 2012 award is crazy.

In my view, I have no problem with DDD winning the Best PnP in 2010 and then it going on to being published the following year (or after it has won the Best PnP), but having the PnP released in the same year as the game is published (or having its Kickstarter campaign) is a little unfair to other PnP games that cannot possibly have the same publicity.
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Max
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
Why is best Podcast under the RPGs? Also, no Dice Tower? Come on!
 
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
CaveatLudor wrote:
Wasn't Mass Effect 3 released in 2012? Why is it eligible?

Also, Gone Home snubbed?
Gone Home is up for voting.
 
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Evan Derrick
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
LordHellfury wrote:
It's ironic you mention this because your game was the first one I thought of as a counter to your argument.

Not that I disagree with you at all, but your game raises an interesting problem that sort of messes with your argument a bit.

What if you make a great PnP game that gets published a couple years later rather than the same year? BSG Express -> Darkmoon is a great example of this.

It kind of puts your argument in a tiny bind, because the counter argument could be made that what difference does it make 5 years or two days later that it gets published?
You cant stop a PnP game who has been nominated for Golden Geek PnP category from getting published, nor more than you can go back in time and prevent a game that got published from getting that award. Does that make any sense?
So while I feel what your saying, I think practically, it is a bit unwieldy to try to enforce.

You know, this is a problem solely created by Kickstarter. The first three years, the PnP winners were very deserving (Dune Express, Zombie in my Pocket, The Thing). Last year, Valley Games / Radiant Gaming (or whatever they're called now), took advantage of the category, leveraging their Kickstarter base to dominate. It's going to happen again this year. The rules for the category obviously need to be overhauled.

As far as I'm aware, only games released in 2013 are eligible for nomination, correct? It would be easy to enforce then. Only games that were released in 2013 AND have not been released commercially are eligible. Perhaps there would be a few edge cases where a PnP game could be nominated WHILE its Kickstarter is currently running, or when a PnP game has been picked up by a publisher but has not actually been released yet, but I'd prefer such edge cases to what we have now.

I was fortunate that my game got enough attention on its own to be picked up by a publisher. There are a lot of great PnP games out there that not many people will ever know about. The Golden Geeks would be a great way to highlight such games.
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
Thanks everyone for the feedback about the PnP award - We'll look at revising the rules for next year's award - since this is a weird transitional year it's best not to mess with it now.

I understand the frustration from the authors of non-published PnP games so it's likely that this will be an easy change for next year (along with a few other problems I've observed).
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
Aldie wrote:
Thanks everyone for the feedback about the PnP award - We'll look at revising the rules for next year's award - since this is a weird transitional year it's best not to mess with it now.

I understand the frustration from the authors of non-published PnP games so it's likely that this will be an easy change for next year (along with a few other problems I've observed).

Thank you, Aldie!
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
In any case, I hope that some people at least will give the lesser known games a chance (I am a bit biased, considering I am one of the designers of the Empire Engine) - and if the Awards at least serve to introduce some new people to the PnP community and games, then that is well worth it. Hopefully it can also shed light on some great people like Brett Gilbert, who founded Good Little Games purely to encourage new people to join the hobby and more specifically to try PnP games - completely free of charge.

I myself have been very humbled by the kind words from people who have tried our game when there are so many other new and shiny published games to play, and it certainly pushes me to keep trying to make new PnP games. The award would be a nice bonus, but it certainly won't replace that satisfaction of making a game other people (some you have never met) enjoy playing.
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
CaveatLudor wrote:
Wasn't Mass Effect 3 released in 2012? Why is it eligible?

Also, Gone Home snubbed?

All of the lists seem to be rife with 2012 releases in just about every category I am honestly puzzled myself.
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
Grumsh wrote:
CaveatLudor wrote:
Wasn't Mass Effect 3 released in 2012? Why is it eligible?

Also, Gone Home snubbed?

All of the lists seem to be rife with 2012 releases in just about every category I am honestly puzzled myself.
I am honestly puzzled myself about whether people read the opening posts.


Edit: Huh, I swear it was in the opening post. Must have been on the noms post, though.
Either way, it's been discussed already.
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
jeffwolfe wrote:
Lots of really good board games, with lots of difficult choices. I ended up ranking some really excellent choices 5th or 6th because there were just that many good games ahead of them.

I ran into a similar issue in some categories. This was an excellent game year! meeple

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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
Aldie wrote:
Thanks everyone for the feedback about the PnP award - We'll look at revising the rules for next year's award - since this is a weird transitional year it's best not to mess with it now.

I understand the frustration from the authors of non-published PnP games so it's likely that this will be an easy change for next year (along with a few other problems I've observed).
This is good news. Thank you very much Aldie
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
derrickec wrote:


You know, this is a problem solely created by Kickstarter. The first three years, the PnP winners were very deserving (Dune Express, Zombie in my Pocket, The Thing). Last year, Valley Games / Radiant Gaming (or whatever they're called now), took advantage of the category, leveraging their Kickstarter base to dominate. It's going to happen again this year. The rules for the category obviously need to be overhauled.

Actually wasn't Zombie in my Pocket published by Cambridge Games Factory in 2010? It was nominated as a PnP in 2009 and didn't win, then nominated and won for the 2010 awards but by then the CGF edition surely must've greatly increased visibility.
 
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
xgamerms999 wrote:
Why is best Podcast under the RPGs?
Because those are Best RPG Podcasts. We're passionate about them.

Quote:
Also, no Dice Tower? Come on!
Because Dice Tower has little or no RPG content.
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
I think the question is: Why is only Best RPG Podcast a category and not also one on BGG and VGG?
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
Locu wrote:
I think the question is: Why is only Best RPG Podcast a category and not also one on BGG and VGG?

my thoughts

VGG does not have Podcasts in it's data structure

RPGG has 296 Podcasts in it's database

BGG has 194 Podcasts in it's database

Podcasts on RPGG are a large and important part of the data structure and site

Podcasts on BGG are important, they also compete with other features of the BGG data structure



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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
D_Matt_Ma wrote:
Oh well... there was always hope for Trieste until this post came. I guess I can throw my support behind Dungeon Roll instead.
It's probably scant consolation but I did vote for it in my club's game of the year poll!

Simon
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
Uzi125 wrote:
Why there are Print and Play games on the list who are't Print and Play any more? (see Eight-Minute Empire)

Because some KS campaigns include the *PnP files* at some basic backer level - I am one of them! meeple
 
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
happy_squid wrote:
In any case, I hope that some people at least will give the lesser known games a chance (I am a bit biased, considering I am one of the designers of the Empire Engine) - and if the Awards at least serve to introduce some new people to the PnP community and games, then that is well worth it. Hopefully it can also shed light on some great people like Brett Gilbert, who founded Good Little Games purely to encourage new people to join the hobby and more specifically to try PnP games - completely free of charge.

I myself have been very humbled by the kind words from people who have tried our game when there are so many other new and shiny published games to play, and it certainly pushes me to keep trying to make new PnP games. The award would be a nice bonus, but it certainly won't replace that satisfaction of making a game other people (some you have never met) enjoy playing.

This +1

Pocket Imperium wouldn't even of hit the radar let alone be nominated for best PnP this year without the great work by Brett Gilbert and Good Little Games

The site www.goodlittlegames.co.uk is a must to check out if you are a PnP fan especially if you are looking at a good way to get into the hobby. Heck with games by Brett J. Gilbert, Tony Boydell, Sebastian Bleasdale and Michael Fox (II) why wouldn't you!
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
JoffW wrote:
The problem is that the publishers of the game are purposely skewing the voting in their favour by using mailing lists to urge their backers to vote. That cannot be fair to an unpublished PnP.

What you are describing is simply marketing, and although it has an obvious effect on people's decision making, it isn't the only factor. Like it or not, better marketed products get better reviews than un-marketed ones. Is a PnP author that geekmails everyone that posts to his game's forum equally unfair?

Having said, I do agree that "PnP as option during publishing" should not be considered for a PnP award. I don't know how long is long enough, but I feel that a successful PnP in January that is picked up for publishing (or at least Kickstarting) by the end of the year should still be included.
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
DainHarper wrote:
JoffW wrote:
The problem is that the publishers of the game are purposely skewing the voting in their favour by using mailing lists to urge their backers to vote. That cannot be fair to an unpublished PnP.

What you are describing is simply marketing, and although it has an obvious effect on people's decision making, it isn't the only factor. Like it or not, better marketed products get better reviews than un-marketed ones. Is a PnP author that geekmails everyone that posts to his game's forum equally unfair?

Having said, I do agree that "PnP as option during publishing" should not be considered for a PnP award. I don't know how long is long enough, but I feel that a successful PnP in January that is picked up for publishing (or at least Kickstarting) by the end of the year should still be included.
I would consider "PnP as an option during publishing" for the award if the PnP and the published game have noticeable enough differences to stand apart.
But yeah, I think that's a good general rule.
 
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open!
Aldie wrote:
Thanks everyone for the feedback about the PnP award - We'll look at revising the rules for next year's award - since this is a weird transitional year it's best not to mess with it now.

I understand the frustration from the authors of non-published PnP games so it's likely that this will be an easy change for next year (along with a few other problems I've observed).

I not saying this just for the fun of going against every one, but as it was said earlier, nothing prevent a PnP, no matter whether it wins awards or not, from having a published edition later on. With this in mind, why would we penalize PnP that actually managed to get published? Some games got their kickstarter success because of the amazing PnP. Shouldn't we celebrate that as well? When I look for the award, I want the best to be nominated and to win, not just the best of the more obscure games...

Continuing with Kickstarter... Could we have a kickstarter category (such as best kickstarter campaing, not in terms of money collected but in terms of the way it was driven, the stretch goals, the creativity, etc)?

Oh and +1 for a digital boardgames category.
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Re: 2013 Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced - Voting Now Open! (1 Day Left!)
Phelanpt wrote:
DainHarper wrote:
JoffW wrote:
The problem is that the publishers of the game are purposely skewing the voting in their favour by using mailing lists to urge their backers to vote. That cannot be fair to an unpublished PnP.

What you are describing is simply marketing, and although it has an obvious effect on people's decision making, it isn't the only factor. Like it or not, better marketed products get better reviews than un-marketed ones. Is a PnP author that geekmails everyone that posts to his game's forum equally unfair?

Having said, I do agree that "PnP as option during publishing" should not be considered for a PnP award. I don't know how long is long enough, but I feel that a successful PnP in January that is picked up for publishing (or at least Kickstarting) by the end of the year should still be included.
I would consider "PnP as an option during publishing" for the award if the PnP and the published game have noticeable enough differences to stand apart.
But yeah, I think that's a good general rule.

I'd lean towards "Commercially Unpublished PnP"

I thought all the same things while I was voting as I just read above. And I will say that people want to own award winning games. So... I would be interested in seeing if there is any correlary to the # of games owned of something and it's ranking in this. Coin Age, by that measure, should probably place in first for PnP, especially considering the email blast they sent asking people to vote as well.
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Nelyhann Nelyhann
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We are very honored to be nominated here in RPGGeek! It's not every day for a french game, thank you all

You can discover Shadows of Esteren by downloading freely the Book 0 Prologue here : http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/109112/Shadows-of-Este...

We also launched a Kickstarter campaign four days ago, we have designed some packs with all the books to start, look there: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1176616619/shadows-of-e...

Thanks for your support and interest!
Nel

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