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RPG» Forums » Community » The Tavern

Subject: Far West Release Date Pool - Entries Closed - Part Two rss

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Eric Franklin
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Bazin wrote:
I'm not saying a backer should post about his writing for L5R on the kickstarter comments, but...

wait, yes, that's exactly what I want to see...



Done.
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Jamie Hardy
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In case you were expecting Far West files this week.

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Eric Franklin
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SteamCraft wrote:
In case you were expecting Far West files this week.


I'm a backer. We've been specially trained to never expect Far West files.
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Eric Franklin
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We had an update on the project today.

It had a download link for another chapter. I think it's a new-to-us chapter, but I'm not 100% certain.

Either way, the provided password apparently isn't working. So for backers it's just a locked ZIP file.

I half-suspect that it's an empty ZIP file. Or that it contains only a small text document as a stalling tactic, and he'll give us a "fixed" upload later tonight or tomorrow, when he's finished writing the chapter.
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Eric Franklin
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Apparently I'm more trouble than I'm worth.

He just offered me my remaining $10.

Frankly, I'm probably going to accept, depending on the strings attached.

http://bit.ly/Skarka (Note: This link will go away when Google closes Plus, so screencap it now)

If it means I have to stop commenting on the project page, I'm 100% okay with that. If it means I *gasp* can't download a game I'm not interested in that will be using a system I despise, I'm 100% down with that.

If it means I have to stop talking about the project here (and elsewhere), that isn't going to happen. If it means I have to say nice things about Skarka or apologize, that also is not going to happen.
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Bruce McGeorge
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Gamethyme wrote:
Apparently I'm more trouble than I'm worth.

He just offered me my remaining $10.


You know... I just mentioned this possibility to my buddy a few days ago.

Keep us posted.
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Gamethyme wrote:
Apparently I'm more trouble than I'm worth.

Congratulations!
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Eric Franklin
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brumcg wrote:
Gamethyme wrote:
Apparently I'm more trouble than I'm worth.

He just offered me my remaining $10.


You know... I just mentioned this possibility to my buddy a few days ago.

Keep us posted.


My wife was pushing me to request that last $10. But that would have meant admitting defeat. That said, Skarka offering the $10 is a win/win. He gets me to stop being a burr under his saddle and I get to walk away from a project that has - honestly - not been good for my mental health.
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Bruce McGeorge
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Gamethyme wrote:
not been good for my mental health.


I hear you. I'll keep my $10 in, but that's only because I've gone mostly zen on Far West over the last couple of years.
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John Fiala
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brumcg wrote:
Gamethyme wrote:
not been good for my mental health.


I hear you. I'll keep my $10 in, but that's only because I've gone mostly zen on Far West over the last couple of years.


Ha! Yeah. Once your wife dies, $10 spent on a literal game of Cowboys and Indians is less of a worry. I mean, I download the chapters when they come up, but if Gareth walked away from the project today I'd just shrug and go on.

Hell, that woman would spend more than $10 in a week just on Starbucks. (She did love her starbucks. Gave away three things of Starbucks Christmas Blend from last Christmas last weekend, because I dislike the flavor, but I didn't want to throw it away.)
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Eric Franklin
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Update: Money received.
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Gamethyme wrote:
Update: Money received.


Queuejumper!
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Eric Franklin
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Bazin wrote:
Gamethyme wrote:
Update: Money received.


Queuejumper!


All you have to do is be a thorn in his side. And contact people who hire him to let them know you won't be giving them money until he either makes good on his obligations to you or they stop hiring him.
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Gamethyme wrote:
Update: Money received.


What's the attorney general's cut?
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Eric Franklin
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dysjunct wrote:
Gamethyme wrote:
Update: Money received.


What's the attorney general's cut?


$0. My taxes pay a portion of his salary. Had they needed to act, they'd have fined Skarka.

His office wasn't involved for the last $10, though. Just the initial $65. Several years ago. And all they really did was scare Skarka by existing and reading my message(s) to him.

I got them involved about a week after they took action against a different failed KS, so there was a perception that they were actively intervening on behalf of Washington State backers.
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Gamethyme wrote:
And contact people who hire him to let them know you won't be giving them money until he either makes good on his obligations to you or they stop hiring him.


Just curious: will you still be doing this?
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Jamie Hardy
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So I went to check out the KS comments. There were a couple, but I will pick the nicer comment:

Quote:
Michael Wolf


Guys, I get that you're annoyed, but is kicking someone lying at the floor really necessary? You backed a Kickstarter. Failure is always an option. Gareth could have just cancelled the project at the end of the money. This has happened to many Kickstarters before. This is not a preorder, it's an investion. But he's soldiering on. Why can't you just let it rest? It's really getting annoying at that point.


Now, I used to be able to click on names in KS and go to their page. That does not seem to be an ability anymore. I do not think you can follow or get info on anyone unless they are a creator.

In any case, I wonder why people are so willing to believe someone who lies constantly? I mean, suppose you invest in a business. That owner of the business constantly lies to you. Attacks other investors who question him. The owner claims to be working, but in reality, is moonlighting with other companies.

That is what is going on here. I just fail to understand how people treat this differently. In fact, a real company would have handled this better. It would have filed for bankruptcy and then each investor would get a portion of what is left. People would walk away.

Here, you have a 7 year long trek with no end. And no more Eric to be a burr in the saddle
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I think the lying is the primary reason. If Skarka had said five years ago, "Everyone, I'm sorry, between my personal issues and various professional errors, the money is gone and I don't see a way to supply you with the finished product. I cannot afford to issue refunds. I will still work on it as time permits, and maybe someday you'll see something, but for now, please assume this is a dead project. My humblest apologies and thank you for taking the chance, even if it didn't turn out how any of us wanted."

... then I doubt it would really be a problem. Plenty of projects or preorders fail. The difference is GMS' lies, excuses, hubris, and combative attitude.
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I have trouble taking someone who uses the word "investion" seriously.
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SteamCraft wrote:
In any case, I wonder why people are so willing to believe someone who lies constantly?


I've stopped trying to analyze this a long time ago. I just don't know. Maybe they don't think he is telling lies. Maybe he's lied so much they don't even notice. Maybe they just aren't paying close attention.

Maybe they don't care about their investion.

*Shrug*

There's probably 500? 600? backers who haven't said a word too.
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quozl wrote:
Gamethyme wrote:
And contact people who hire him to let them know you won't be giving them money until he either makes good on his obligations to you or they stop hiring him.


Just curious: will you still be doing this?


I don't know. I won't be knowingly putting money in Skarka's pocket again, and I am still rather irritated about Modiphius "forgetting" to put his name in the credits. Twice.

But "irritated" and "enraged" are two entirely different things.

So I won't be buying the L5R 5E core book (which, honestly, hurts a lot). And I'll be thinking twice or three times before buying anything from Modiphius.

Obviously, I'm never giving another nickel to Adamant. Since I don't play d20 or Savage Worlds these days, that's hardly a loss, though.
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Gamethyme wrote:
quozl wrote:
Gamethyme wrote:
And contact people who hire him to let them know you won't be giving them money until he either makes good on his obligations to you or they stop hiring him.


Just curious: will you still be doing this?


I don't know. I won't be knowingly putting money in Skarka's pocket again, and I am still rather irritated about Modiphius "forgetting" to put his name in the credits. Twice.

But "irritated" and "enraged" are two entirely different things.

So I won't be buying the L5R 5E core book (which, honestly, hurts a lot). And I'll be thinking twice or three times before buying anything from Modiphius.


This will probably makes things worse for you, but I suppose part of this depends on if you are taking a moral stand or if it a personal motivation.

If it is simply personal, then eventually your motivations will change. Eventually your irritation will be less than the desire to play these games.

On the other hand, if it a moral point you are making - don't like to your customers, do not support companies that support liars/thieves/bad people, do not reward companies who place their personal friends over justice, etc. then you would not be able to buy from them. Buying products GMS worked on rewards both the company and GMS for immoral behavior.

If you were really a good person, then not only would you not buy from them, you would continue to let other companies know. That, of course, would be placing a burden on yourself, which might be too much to ask from someone.

But, from a moral point of view, unless and until Modiphius makes amends to balance the scales of justice, then it would be wrong to buy products that GMS worked on.

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SteamCraft wrote:
This will probably makes things worse for you, but I suppose part of this depends on if you are taking a moral stand or if it a personal motivation.


It makes things neither better nor worse, because this is exactly the stream of thought I've been floating on for the last few weeks. Even before Skarka offered to finish my refund.

SteamCraft wrote:
If you were really a good person


But I'm not a good person - and I never claimed to be.

SteamCraft wrote:
But, from a moral point of view, unless and until Modiphius makes amends to balance the scales of justice, then it would be wrong to buy products that GMS worked on.


I'm not sure what Modiphius could do to get me to buy GMS-tainted product, honestly. The real question for me is "What will it take for me to buy non-GMS Modiphius product again?" And I honestly don't know what the answer to that question is. Hell, his touch has partially soured me on Star Trek, which has been my primary fandom for as long as I can remember.

I've had communication with FFG forwarded to me by several people. Both "I'm just Customer Service, but I'll forward it up the ladder," and "I'm the RPG Department Manager, and I'll take your words under advisement." They were vague enough words that it's possible FFG is done hiring GMS, but it's also possible that GMS will have more on his plate by the end of the week.

I'm still going to keep track of what he works on, because - again - I don't want my dollars in his pockets. And I'll pop up to warn people (like I did with L5R) as I see more products on the list.
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Gamethyme wrote:


But I'm not a good person - and I never claimed to be.


Never said you were. It was in reference to a post where someone asked if you could go to the trouble. It is one thing to come across GMS listed in a work and pass that information on. It is different to go out of your way to contact and complain to a company. The later is much more demanding to ask of someone.

Gamethyme wrote:
SteamCraft wrote:
But, from a moral point of view, unless and until Modiphius makes amends to balance the scales of justice, then it would be wrong to buy products that GMS worked on.


I'm not sure what Modiphius could do to get me to buy GMS-tainted product, honestly. The real question for me is "What will it take for me to buy non-GMS Modiphius product again?" And I honestly don't know what the answer to that question is. Hell, his touch has partially soured me on Star Trek, which has been my primary fandom for as long as I can remember.


I agree in that non-GMS Modiphius products as well. To buy non-GMS products is still rewarding a company that has behaved ethically wrong. Buying a GMS-Modiphius product is just twice as wrong

FFG is a bit different in that they never made a commitment not to. So, supporting them is less morally problematic because at least they did not lie and obscure information. Yet, I haven't purchase any additional Star Wars products, in part, because of this.

As for Modiphius, I suppose it comes down to this. Chances are, they will never stop hiring GMS. I do not believe that Modiphius believes they did anything wrong. Part of rectifying this would involve them at least admitting their ethical error. If that is what is required, then I doubt you will be able to buy a Modophius product again.

I am just glad I am not interested in Modihpius products and that I prefer WEG Star Wars to FFG. It makes things much easier on me. No tension between my desires and ethical commitments.
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SteamCraft wrote:
If you were really a good person, then not only would you not buy from them, you would continue to let other companies know. That, of course, would be placing a burden on yourself, which might be too much to ask from someone.

Hang on. You're saying that to be a "good" person I have to publicize my antipathy toward GMS and companies that lie about supporting him.

And yet...you are very critical of creators who waste their time and energy on politics and other external factors (like Wendig v. Kavanaugh).... If being a "good" person means one has to sacrifice one's time and energy to educate others about the world's ethical shortcomings, doesn't that mean GMS and other creators are perfectly justified wasting spending their time railing against a system they are unlikely to change, because it is the "right" thing to do (from their perspective...not to get this thread buried in RPS or anything)?
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