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RPG» Forums » General Discussion » General Role-Playing

Subject: B1 & B2 Into the Borderlands for 5E rss

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Karl Wobbe
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I searched and saw some things about this and I have posted before but figured a new topic about it was the better way to go.

Goodman Games is redoing the original B1 and B2 modules for 5E and released some new info on how it's all going.

We are targeting April release date, hardcover format, 384 pages, $49.99.

http://goodman-games.com/blog/2018/01/21/into-the-borderland...


http://goodman-games.com/blog/2018/01/10/the-latest-news-on-...

*edit*
They are also releasing a PDF version of it though I do not know at what price.


*edit #2*
Pre-Orders are up

http://goodman-games.com/blog/2018/01/28/into-the-borderland...

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Robb Minneman
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Thanks for the update. This one is definitely on my "must buy" list for this year. I want to run it with my kids, and am vacillating between good old Basic and 5e. Knowing that they're planning on an April release is a huge help.
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Jamie Hardy
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It will be interesting to see how it plays in 5E. TSR era games tend to have a lot of PC deaths on low-levels. The challenge was to survive. 5E doesn't have that. Makes me wonder if things will be as deadly for 5E players or not.
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Stephen Pennisi
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B1 In Search of the Unknown was 32 pages and B2 The Keep on the Borderlands was 28 pages. Making a total of 60 pages between the two.
Goodman's version is 384 pages.
What makes up the other 324 pages?
5e mechanics and art?
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DadsAngry wrote:
B1 In Search of the Unknown was 32 pages and B2 The Keep on the Borderlands was 28 pages. Making a total of 60 pages between the two.
Goodman's version is 384 pages.
What makes up the other 324 pages?
5e mechanics and art?


They discuss that in the first link.
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Douglas Bailey
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Very happy to see this:
Goodman Games wrote:
…for now the format is a typical 8.5 x 11 book.

Some of Goodman's previous releases have been so large-format that they won't fit on any shelf that I own, and are unwieldy at the table. I much prefer a standard-sized book.
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DadsAngry wrote:
B1 In Search of the Unknown was 32 pages and B2 The Keep on the Borderlands was 28 pages. Making a total of 60 pages between the two.
Goodman's version is 384 pages.
What makes up the other 324 pages?
5e mechanics and art?


They are printing the original first published adventures of each using original rules. Then they are doing a version of each. They are fleshing out the undeveloped territories and adding in some new encounters. There is 30+ pages of new items, spells, henchmen, etc.

But yes, based on their statement and the Table of Contents the 5E conversion is mostly to play.

Quote:
[T]here is a 5E conversion of the original modules. The 5E conversions of course take up quite a bit of space, because there are many rooms and creatures to stat up. The 5E stat blocks for new creatures and NPCs take a lot more room than 1E stat blocks. There is more art than in the original 1E editions.

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Eric Jome
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DadsAngry wrote:
What makes up the other 324 pages?


I too miss the good old days of modest length filled with summarized content. I was annoyed with almost every 5e product I've seen so far; I don't need hundreds of pages for adventure prep. And what I did need was inline stat blocks for monsters to prevent me having to flip through books constantly.

But clearly the market wants tomes of content.
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As a newly returning DM (red box in the mid eighties) who never ran these modules - or certainly can't remember them! - I'd be interested to know: are people interested in this mainly because of nostalgia, because they remain great adventures or both?

In the marketing blurb, the publisher refers a lot to the collectible / historical value - I'm wondering if that's an indication that they're designed more as a coffee table purchase.

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Edmonton911 wrote:
As a newly returning DM (red box in the mid eighties) who never ran these modules - or certainly can't remember them! - I'd be interested to know: are people interested in this mainly because of nostalgia, because they remain great adventures or both?

I want to see how they adapt the adventures to 5th edition, but I also want to see whether Into the Unknown would be more interesting to me if it came with pre-stocked monsters instead of being a "the solution is left to the reader" exercise.
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Rob Doupe
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cosine wrote:
DadsAngry wrote:
What makes up the other 324 pages?


I too miss the good old days of modest length filled with summarized content. I was annoyed with almost every 5e product I've seen so far; I don't need hundreds of pages for adventure prep. And what I did need was inline stat blocks for monsters to prevent me having to flip through books constantly.

But clearly the market wants tomes of content.


Yep. In defiance of my experience with modern adventures, I recently bought a D&D Next/5E adventure (the Legacy of the Crystal Shard) and immediately had buyer's remorse. Walls of text full of content the PCs will never interact with - history, NPC backgrounds, etc. Important game content buried in these walls of text, requiring me to either memorize 100 pages of content, or create my own notes summarizing the content for practical use at the table.

I want adventure and setting content to be 80 per cent stuff that the PCs will see and touch, and 20 per cent background and plot of interest only to the DM. To be written with utility at the table in mind, rather than as fantasy fiction to be read for its own sake. But the market seems to want the opposite.

As for this product, as a nostalgic DM who ran these back in the day and would like to play them with my kids, I should be the target customer for something like this. But it seems like a weird hybrid of collectable reprint and modern conversion. Why would I need not just two, but three versions of each module?
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Edmonton911 wrote:
As a newly returning DM (red box in the mid eighties) who never ran these modules - or certainly can't remember them! - I'd be interested to know: are people interested in this mainly because of nostalgia, because they remain great adventures or both?


I am not really sure who the audience is for this. In terms of usefulness, it is only useful for 5E players who want to play B1 and B2. If you liked those adventures, and still play, then I think you are more likely to be playing an older edition or retro clone than 5E.

So I guess it is being targeted at older players who have played 5E, but want to run these old modules. Beyond that, I would assume collectors. It does have the first printing of the modules. That might be appealing to some.
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SteamCraft wrote:
Edmonton911 wrote:
As a newly returning DM (red box in the mid eighties) who never ran these modules - or certainly can't remember them! - I'd be interested to know: are people interested in this mainly because of nostalgia, because they remain great adventures or both?


I am not really sure who the audience is for this. In terms of usefulness, it is only useful for 5E players who want to play B1 and B2. If you liked those adventures, and still play, then I think you are more likely to be playing an older edition or retro clone than 5E.

So I guess it is being targeted at older players who have played 5E, but want to run these old modules. Beyond that, I would assume collectors. It does have the first printing of the modules. That might be appealing to some.


That's me...old time gamer with kids getting into it.

$50 for a module is is sadly the way of things and this one is nostalgic.

B2 was the first module I ever played and I still own the original copy.
I actually posted a review of the 5E Starter that mentioned it before even discovering this new version.

https://rpggeek.com/thread/1889248/it-truly-started-it-my-7-...

It will be neat to see how they have reworked the originals into the new version and it was simply a fun dungeon crawl before dungeon crawls even existed.


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Jackasses? You let a whole column get stalled and strafed on account of a couple of jackasses? What the hell's the matter with you?
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Edmonton911 wrote:
As a newly returning DM (red box in the mid eighties) who never ran these modules - or certainly can't remember them! - I'd be interested to know: are people interested in this mainly because of nostalgia, because they remain great adventures or both?

In the marketing blurb, the publisher refers a lot to the collectible / historical value - I'm wondering if that's an indication that they're designed more as a coffee table purchase.



B2 is still eminently playable, and still a good module. I ran it using the Basic ruleset at the local game store about five years ago, and had a screaming good time. I still pull it out and run it now and then for folks as a throwback experience.

Remember it was written as a "how to" guide for DMs, and so it's written to help them learn the ropes. It's a much more difficult adventure for players, and playing it as-written with beginning players can lead to a high body count. It's also very much in the dungeon-crawl mode. You have to have players who want that kind of experience.

The "How to DM" advice in the front of B2 is very good advice. Some of the best written advice Gygax ever put out. I wouldn't hesitate for a minute to hand it out to a beginner and say, "Here. Work from this and come back to me with questions."
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Per Robb's, points, I think the target audience is both collectors and new players--which is a weird mix.

I've still got the original B2, and could do my own conversion in an hour or two, or even on the fly, if I wanted to run it in 5E. So I don't need the product on either count. It would need to be marked down severely to be worth it to me, especially given the format in which it is presented.

For a budding GM I know, part of this would be an excellent product. The original modules with advice and 5E stats is exactly what he needs. It's a shame he has to overpay for that to also get the collectible aspect, which is irrelevant to his purpose. Though I suppose a PDF would be more useful in that regard, since it would be cheaper, and you could print only the parts you care about.

The willful, obtuse drive to make 5E things half-baked is starting to annoy me more than just a little.



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Robb Minneman
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Samathi wrote:
Per Robb's, points, I think the target audience is both collectors and new players--which is a weird mix.


I may be the only guy on the planet who is the target market for the whole thing. The collectible/historical aspect is fascinating and interesting to me, but I'm likely to make use of the 5e conversion with my kids.
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Ditto. Target market also..

I may even run parts of it here in the PbF.
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robbbbbb wrote:
Samathi wrote:
Per Robb's, points, I think the target audience is both collectors and new players--which is a weird mix.


I may be the only guy on the planet who is the target market for the whole thing. The collectible/historical aspect is fascinating and interesting to me, but I'm likely to make use of the 5e conversion with my kids.


I'm right there with you and the target market, and I think there is an unusual number of us like that frankly.

We all started when we were 8-10...now we got 8-10 year olds.

Plus we've got jobs and money to reminisce and splurge on things with our kids.

It's true $20 B1&B2 module for 5E would be fine...but $50 for this is not a bad deal all things considered from my point of view.
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Kobey_333 wrote:

It's true $20 B1&B2 module for 5E would be fine...but $50 for this is not a bad deal all things considered from my point of view.


Don't get me wrong. It's not all bad. Half-baked is better than raw.

I'm aggravated because it is considerably less than it could be, with even a little thought and effort. In particular, a hard-back book is a terrible means to do any adventure. OK, you got to do that, because it is what sells. Fine. Then make some of those pages/extras be things that help run the blasted adventure. NPC interaction maps. Players aids. Indexes. If you can't put it in a good format, at least add 10-20 pages at the back that organize it six ways to Sunday. (Or even better, do that, and then include the same material in a companion PDF.) Those 10-20 pages are considerable work, but they would make that $50.00 a lot better value.

They write adventures the way Microsoft writes documentation. It's not impossible to use, but annoying as hell.

Edit: I want to give them some money, and they are working overtime to drive me away.
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they are releasing a PDF version of it.

And hopefully Goodman has some decent index and appendix stuff they do a LOT of these things and know what and how people play.
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cosine wrote:
DadsAngry wrote:
What makes up the other 324 pages?


I too miss the good old days of modest length filled with summarized content. I was annoyed with almost every 5e product I've seen so far; I don't need hundreds of pages for adventure prep. And what I did need was inline stat blocks for monsters to prevent me having to flip through books constantly.

But clearly the market wants tomes of content.


I like the general look and utility of the 5E adventures so far. I stopped running them not because the modules suck (they're fairly linear, but rather good), but because 5 campaign years in 3 years is a bit much for someone like me.
I prefer a different game every 3-12 months.

Note that the big book modules are just that 3-6 months of regular play, 12 if you have extensive RPers.
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Just another update on this...they started pre-orders.

http://goodman-games.com/blog/2018/01/28/into-the-borderland...

$30 shipping is a big letdown mind you...
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Just pre-ordered.. It will look good on my Coffee Table..
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Curious how this will compare to Classic Modules Today B1: In Search of the Unknown and Classic Modules Today B2: The Keep on the Borderlands. Especially at the $50 vs total of $4 (though you need the original modules for the Classic Modules Today series).
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I played a Borderlands playtest back when 5th ed. was Next, and found it to be very disappointing. The early levels of the new game simply aren't comparable to low-level play in BECMI, and attempting to redcreate that feeling just didn't work.

Color me somewhat skeptical here.
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