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Felix Lastname
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EnricPDX wrote:
I'm a big fan of the curve on 2d6, which gets used in a lot of Apocalypse Engine stuff, as well as some of my favorite board games. I struggle a bit with custom dice with lots of symbology, like in the Fantasy Flight Star Wars game.


I'm with Harry. 2d6 are greatly satisfying for my everyday gaming needs (#AWE). Just enough spread.

Still: sometimes, the unpredictability of the d20 has its place, and I really want to like custom dice, even if I struggle to enjoy any particular implementation of them.
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Rebus Carnival
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Threepeeohs vs Solos
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Carlos Luna
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In general I prefer to roll more than one dice at a time. Otherwise it feels too random and unpredictable.

So, for example, I like 2d6 and 3d6 systems but not 1d6 systems. I like some D100 systems but tend to hate the D20 system. It is kind of irrational, I know, because a D100 is as flat as D20, but rolling two dice at a time is somehow more satisfying than rolling just one.

Some time ago I was a big fan of dice pools (either on the World of Darkness get-successes version or the MiniSix sum-them-all variant) but nowadays I prefer fixed dice pools (4dF, 3d6, 2d6) or single dice systems where you apply bonus/malus by rolling extra dice and keeping the best/worst one (Fu, Blades in the Dark).

My current favorite is a 3d2 system but I have to acknowledge that tossing coins is a pain in the ass so I use binary d6 or plastic buttons that "roll" better.
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Michael Ink
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HATED dice Mechanics:
1. When I need to roll more than 6 dice and count the successes. Inevitably one mixes with some other dice or rolls off the table or you need a huge amount of space for an otherwise theater of the mind game.

2. Cortex Plus style where you need to decide which dice and how many to roll before every game action. It just stalls the game, especially, when it becomes about trying to justify to the GM that you can always use your best dice.


Disliked Dice Mechanics:
1. d4 dice. They don't roll
2. I also dislike the FF Star Wars where figuring out the dice interferes with the spontaneity of play.
3. Multiple opposed rolls where success is not determined quickly
4. 1d6 - No creativity or even averaging allowed


Meh Dice Mechanics
1. I think d100 is kind of funny. Like Rebus said, the idea that you can tell the skill level by 1% is like saying you can tell me you can feel the different of 1 degree F in a room or like saying BRP is really a basic rules light system. Ha!
2. Arbitrary Target Scores / Rolls


Preferred Dice Mechanics
1. I like the highs and lows of the d20. Rare enough to get a 1 or 20 that people get excited but at the same time it is better odds than snake eyes or double sixes.
2. I always enjoy the balance of 2d6 +bonus/-debility
3. Doubles increasing an effect
4. I like the idea of challenge dice as proposed in Ironsworn, (although I don't know if this makes it feel to random in practice)

Favorite Dice Mechanics:
1. Advantage / Disadvantage rules dice mechanism in D&D 5e.
2. I also enjoy exploding dice (although not on D4).
3. 2d6 +1d6 as modifier (High dice for Advantage or low dice for Disadvantage (combines 2d6 with Advantage / Disadvantage, of course I love it!)



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Inkwan wrote:
1. d4 dice. They don't roll

They don't need to. You just throw them on the floor to stop the angry players from reaching you after your "awesome" plot twist that they now all want to strangle you for.
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Brian M
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I've seen people get really odd about bell-curve and dice pool probabilities. Like, they seem to believe that if roll has a bell-curve or non-standard probability it somehow becomes "magic" and the rules of probability don't apply to it.

Like, there was a discussion about the bad luck of a character with an 80% chance of success failing three times in a row, and a posted remarked "that would never happen if you were rolling multiple dice for the check instead of just one".

But...yes it would. You'll fail an 80% chance three times in a row just as often with any dice system (About .8% of the time, in fact).
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Roger Hobden
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The probability that all players will have a firm grasp of statistics is much lower then 100 %.
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Roger Hobden
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Also, don't forget that exactly 63,47 % of all statistics are completely made up.
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Michael Ink
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pdzoch wrote:
I wonder how much everyone's prior gaming experience influences dice mechanic preferences. For example, some may not like d6 because because it feels like a boardgame mechanic. Some may not like multiple d6s because it feels like a wargame mechanic. Neither bother me, but there are not my preference because of how I associate them. I also recognize my bias for dice mechanics similar to my first rpg.

As long as it is easy to use and yields a probability of success consistent with my character's expected capability in face of a challenge, I am good.


This is the reason for SO many players loving the odd shaped dice...because almost all of us on here wanted to know at that time what they were and why they existed and what is this strange game anyway....
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Inkwan wrote:

Meh Dice Mechanics
1. I think d100 is kind of funny. Like Rebus said, the idea that you can tell the skill level by 1% is like saying you can tell me you can feel the different of 1 degree F in a room or like saying BRP is really a basic rules light system. Ha!


The idea that we could tell the skill level by 5% is equally absurd. In fact, most people would not be able to put a numerical value of approximating skill at all. If this is why people do not like d100, then they probably shouldn't like any system.

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Roger Hobden
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Quote:


like saying you can tell me you can feel the different of 1 degree F in a room



Actually, I once knew an engineer who could accurately estimate the outside temperature within +/- 1 degree Celsius by the sensation that he felt on his skin.
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SteamCraft wrote:
Inkwan wrote:

Meh Dice Mechanics
1. I think d100 is kind of funny. Like Rebus said, the idea that you can tell the skill level by 1% is like saying you can tell me you can feel the different of 1 degree F in a room or like saying BRP is really a basic rules light system. Ha!


The idea that we could tell the skill level by 5% is equally absurd. In fact, most people would not be able to put a numerical value of approximating skill at all. If this is why people do not like d100, then they probably shouldn't like any system.



It's not dislike, it's ambivalence. At least according the OED definition of meh. It is the illusion of precision. It would never keep me from playing a game but it does make me less interested in running one.
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rebuscarnival wrote:
SteamCraft wrote:
Inkwan wrote:

Meh Dice Mechanics
1. I think d100 is kind of funny. Like Rebus said, the idea that you can tell the skill level by 1% is like saying you can tell me you can feel the different of 1 degree F in a room or like saying BRP is really a basic rules light system. Ha!


The idea that we could tell the skill level by 5% is equally absurd. In fact, most people would not be able to put a numerical value of approximating skill at all. If this is why people do not like d100, then they probably shouldn't like any system.



It's not dislike, it's ambivalence. At least according the OED definition of meh. It is the illusion of precision. It would never keep me from playing a game but it does make me less interested in running one.

You might not be able to feel the difference between 42°F and 43°F, but you can probably tell when the temperature drops a degree below your normal room temperature.

D% systems tend to be like that. Most of the time it doesn't matter, but every once in a while, it's nice to have that granularity.
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So many people hating the D100 but I loves me some MSH... where it differs from palladium an the others by a lot. Same dice used differentlythumbsup
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I get it, it's just not why I roll dice. And that is a conversation we have done to death.
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Alan, "Son of Hett"
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I think there is a misunderstanding about the bell curve (3 or more dice, + or - a modifier, compared to a target number (which is variable, but I will ignore that for now)).

If my TN is 16 (or less) and I have no modifier, then:
• with 1D20 {flat graph} I have a 20% chance of failure,
• with 2D10+(1d2-2) {tringular graph} I have about an 8% chance of failure,
• and with (2D8+1D6)-2 {bell curve} I have about a 5.2% chance of failure.

• Additionally, with 1D20 I always have a 5% chance, regardless of my modifier, of a critical failure. That liklihood drops considerably with the use of more dice. On the other hand, a friend of mine who is a statistician says she enjoys D20 because it adds suspense and excitement to the game.

Pardon the weird dice combinations, but they each produce results of 1 to 20 (so as to avoid the extra calculations of mapping 3D6 to a D20 system). Also sorry for using D20 as the example. (Percentile with tables is as effective, but more cumbersome.) (And I am unfamiliar with dice pools, so I have no comment there.)
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As soon as you combine two or more different types of die for a single roll (ex: 1D4+1D8), and the types change from one roll to the next, I'm gone.

yuk

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Peter BOSCO'S
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My least favorite dice mechanism is not the one that is absolutely the worst, it's a bad one that sees to much use - the 1d20 system of D&D and it's variants.

Simply put - the die is too random and how well you roll is much more important than how good you are at a task. It strains my suspension of disbelief when the brawny barbarian can't break the door down but the frail wizard can, just because the wizards player rolled much better. It breaks my suspension of disbelief when the clever and learned Wizard can not decipher the arcane runes but the dull uneducated Barbarian can, just because the Barbarians player rolled much better.

It makes everything too variable, encourages everyone to try every task hoping to roll well, and denigrates the value of expertise when experts fail all the time but ignorant amateurs succeed at the same task.
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True Blue Jon
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All dice have the same amount of randomness. The system must be tailored to the dice used to get proper chances of success and failure. That has nothing to do with the dice, only the system.
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Hans Messersmith
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I was thinking about this conversation, and it occurred to me why I prefer simple and crazy, but not the in-between.

with simple systems (flat curves like d20 or d100, simple bell curves like 2d6, 3d6, even dFudge), I have an intuitive (or exact in the case of a flat curve) understanding of what my chance of success will be, even without doing the math, and with the math I can have an exact understanding. I can make gambles on success in the game with close to full information.

With crazy systems (e.g. cortex plus) the dice are really a kind of mini-game, the fun is in handling them, seeing all the colors, etc. The real game is usually played with some other resources; plot points, hero points, etc. The dice are just this initial state that you then modify using the tools at your disposal.

With middle ground systems the dice are complicated enough you can have a hard time figuring out what your actual probability of success is in the moment, but its not interesting enough to be game in and of itself. Also, in my experience designers sometimes don't match well the categories of difficulty they assign to such systems with what I think players would perceive the difficulty to be (e.g. "easy" is really not that easy at all, or "challenging" is actually a push-over).

To my mind, in any game where I will be required to "gamble" a lot, e.g. make big bets on my characters life or death on a roll, I want a simple system so I can make those gambles with better information. But in any game verging on super-heroics and crazy action, I prefer crazy systems.
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3rik de πrik
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Interestingly, when I started roleplaying I joined a group who ran GURPS with a d20 instead of 3d6. I can´t say it ever bothered me.
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3rik wrote:
Interestingly, when I started roleplaying I joined a group who ran GURPS with a d20 instead of 3d6. I can´t say it ever bothered me.
That's interesting! Had they/you ever played it with the 3d6? I can see not noticing if you have never played the alternative, but thinking back to my own GURPS play a flat curve would have made a BIG difference, especially in character creation. But also in play; the 3d6 makes very high skill values near locks on success, but a flat curve would mean there is always a substantial (5-10%) chance of failure (if I am understanding how it would work).
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Boscos wrote:
My least favorite dice mechanism is not the one that is absolutely the worst, it's a bad one that sees to much use - the 1d20 system of D&D and it's variants.

Simply put - the die is too random and how well you roll is mush more important than how good you are at a task. It strains my suspension of disbelief when the brawny barbarian can't break the door down but the frail wizard can, just because the wizards player rolled much better. It breaks my suspension of disbelief when the clever and learned Wizard can not decipher the arcane runes but the dull uneducated Barbarian can, just because the Barbarians player rolled much better.

It makes everything too variable, encourages everyone to try every task hoping to roll well, and denigrates the value of expertise when experts fail all the time but ignorant amateurs succeed at the same task.

Agreed. But surely that's a problem with the target numbers rather than the d20 system itself?
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E Decker wrote:
Boscos wrote:
My least favorite dice mechanism is not the one that is absolutely the worst, it's a bad one that sees to much use - the 1d20 system of D&D and it's variants.

Simply put - the die is too random and how well you roll is mush more important than how good you are at a task. It strains my suspension of disbelief when the brawny barbarian can't break the door down but the frail wizard can, just because the wizards player rolled much better. It breaks my suspension of disbelief when the clever and learned Wizard can not decipher the arcane runes but the dull uneducated Barbarian can, just because the Barbarians player rolled much better.

It makes everything too variable, encourages everyone to try every task hoping to roll well, and denigrates the value of expertise when experts fail all the time but ignorant amateurs succeed at the same task.

Agreed. But surely that's a problem with the target numbers rather than the d20 system itself?

Target numbers are the part I dislike... all systems included...
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skalchemist wrote:
3rik wrote:
Interestingly, when I started roleplaying I joined a group who ran GURPS with a d20 instead of 3d6. I can´t say it ever bothered me.
That's interesting! Had they/you ever played it with the 3d6? I can see not noticing if you have never played the alternative, but thinking back to my own GURPS play a flat curve would have made a BIG difference, especially in character creation. But also in play; the 3d6 makes very high skill values near locks on success, but a flat curve would mean there is always a substantial (5-10%) chance of failure (if I am understanding how it would work).

I'm sure they switched to d20 at a certain point because they wanted to get extreme outcomes more often. I myself had never played an RPG before so I was completely unaware. They only told me later on when I was looking into buying GURPS and planning to eventually run it myself.
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