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RPG» Forums » General Discussion » RPG Design

Subject: Working on a new mechanic. What do you think? rss

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Ray M.
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So, I originally posted a system here: https://rpggeek.com/article/25338444#25338444

After much-needed advice and reworking, I was stumped until recently when I designed a newer, sleeker 3d6 style system that I've fallen in love with. So.. if you could, be gentle with harsh criticisms. I am, however, looking for the constructive kind. I'd like to build from it, while keeping the core as it is, if possible. So, here it is.

First, there are levels for almost everything. The main ones being:
- Character Level
- Hunter Level (Rank/Prestige)
- Weapon Level


Your attack roll:
3d6 + Character Level + + Weapon Level + Weapon Sharpness + Skills/Misc.


Skills in this case being more like feats than skills. You add up the entire roll to get the sum. All additions are in dice. So..

A character at Level 4, Weapon level 2, normal sharpness (+0) and no additional skills would roll 9d6 (3d6+4d6+2d6).

Defense is a static value based on Character Level + Armor Rating + Skills/Misc.

You can spend a stamina point to add 3d6 to your Defense. After that, you can add 1d6 per additional Stamina spent. Stamina regains, normally, at 1 per turn.

Damage is calculated as (Attack Roll + Weapon Rating) - Defense Rating.

So..

If Ellis is a 3rd Level character with a Medium Rated Longsword (+1) and Jam is a 3rd Level character with Leather Armor (Rated +2), then it would go like this..

Ellis rolls 4d6 and gets 3, 4, 4, 2 = 13.
Jam's defense rating is 5 (3+2=5).
13 - 5 = 8 damage.

Jam starts with 72 Health Points. Jam now has 64 remaining.

Jam could have chosen to mitigate even more of that damage by spending a Stamina Point. If so, he might roll 4, 1, 2 for a total of 7, essentially diminishing damage down to 1, leaving him with 71 Health remaining.

Health Points are also in d6. You get the full d6 for each Health rating.

I know it might seem a bit out there but.. I'm really loving the system so far and I'd really love it if y'all could give me some feedback and constructive criticism. Thanks!
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Alain Curato
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I am not sure why you say that skills are feats and not skills. In the D6 system all skills are a number of D6 you add to your attribute roll and various bonus dice.

If you mean that a skill had a fixed level (like, all Fighter-type skills yield a constant +2D6 with swords, axes, or bows or such), I can see how it is a feat.

If not, then no reason to complicate things.
 
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Alain Curato
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Skullfingr wrote:
Defense is a static value based on Character Level + Armor Rating + Skills/Misc.

You can spend a stamina point to add 3d6 to your Defense. After that, you can add 1d6 per additional Stamina spent. Stamina regains, normally, at 1 per turn.

Damage is calculated as (Attack Roll + Weapon Rating) - Defense Rating.

So..

If Ellis is a 3rd Level character with a Medium Rated Longsword (+1) and Jam is a 3rd Level character with Leather Armor (Rated +2), then it would go like this..

Ellis rolls 4d6 and gets 3, 4, 4, 2 = 13.
Jam's defense rating is 5 (3+2=5).
13 - 5 = 8 damage.

Jam starts with 72 Health Points. Jam now has 64 remaining.

Jam could have chosen to mitigate even more of that damage by spending a Stamina Point. If so, he might roll 4, 1, 2 for a total of 7, essentially diminishing damage down to 1, leaving him with 71 Health remaining.


That seems fine. Just needs testing and probabilities. As I read it now, defender seems to have a huge advantage by having both passive and active absorption; combat could go for a very long time if nobody gets lucky rolls. Stamina returns very fast also.

Maybe attacker could also spend Stamina to add effort into the blow?
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M. B. Downey
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Skullfingr wrote:
Your attack roll:
3d6 + Character Level + + Weapon Level + Weapon Sharpness + Skills/Misc.


Skills in this case being more like feats than skills. You add up the entire roll to get the sum. All additions are in dice. So..

A character at Level 4, Weapon level 2, normal sharpness (+0) and no additional skills would roll 9d6 (3d6+4d6+2d6).


Skullfingr wrote:
Damage is calculated as (Attack Roll + Weapon Rating) - Defense Rating.

If Ellis is a 3rd Level character with a Medium Rated Longsword (+1) and Jam is a 3rd Level character with Leather Armor (Rated +2), then it would go like this..

Ellis rolls 4d6 and gets 3, 4, 4, 2 = 13.
Jam's defense rating is 5 (3+2=5).
13 - 5 = 8 damage.


These doesn't line up. Per your first explanation of attack roll, if Ellis is a 3rd level character he should get 3d6 (base roll) + 3d6 (character level) + whatever his weapon level is + whatever sharpness his weapon is + any skills. So a minimum it should be 6d6, not 4d6. Right?

And then Ellis would add the result of that 6d6 attack roll + an additional 1d6 for the weapon rating, and compare it to Defense to determine damage. But there's nothing that determine whether it hits or not, just how much damage is taken. Or is the attack roll initially compared to defense to determine if you are hit before adding the weapon sharpness to determine damage?

What is the difference between weapon sharpness and weapon rating? Why is sharpness added to your attack roll but weapon rating is added to the damage? Why the nuance between two different weapon rolls? You may want to consider using only one weapon roll, but there are certainly design choices for having two aspects, such as if the rating determines whether it could break, sharpness determining the type of damage, just further additional choices for weapons, etc.

It appears like every attack hits, and your defense just determines how much damage you take. So your system does not allow for nuance between someone who is accurate but does little damage and someone who is not accurate but packs a huge punch. Everyone just always hits and does a bunch of damage. Not saying that is a good or a bad thing, just trying to understand what your system is.
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M. B. Downey
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Skullfingr wrote:
You can spend a stamina point to add 3d6 to your Defense. After that, you can add 1d6 per additional Stamina spent. Stamina regains, normally, at 1 per turn.


Seems like you should almost always spend that stamina point to get the 3d6 defense if it is just going to come back the next turn. Decisions should have tradeoffs to make them interesting, otherwise your decision is obvious and not really a decision. When is stamina not regained? How else is stamina used?
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Ray M.
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Karkared wrote:
I am not sure why you say that skills are feats and not skills. In the D6 system all skills are a number of D6 you add to your attribute roll and various bonus dice.

If you mean that a skill had a fixed level (like, all Fighter-type skills yield a constant +2D6 with swords, axes, or bows or such), I can see how it is a feat.

If not, then no reason to complicate things.


This isn't the "normal" or any previously iterated d6 style system. What I mean is that Skills, as I have them right now, they're more like feats, powers or abilities than skills as you would find them in, say, World of Darkness or Pathfinder - where they represent your proficiency in a certain action. Certain Skills, however, will add to rolls involving specifc actions such as crafting, sneaking or lock picking.

Karkared wrote:
Skullfingr wrote:
Defense is a static value based on Character Level + Armor Rating + Skills/Misc.

You can spend a stamina point to add 3d6 to your Defense. After that, you can add 1d6 per additional Stamina spent. Stamina regains, normally, at 1 per turn.

Damage is calculated as (Attack Roll + Weapon Rating) - Defense Rating.

So..

If Ellis is a 3rd Level character with a Medium Rated Longsword (+1) and Jam is a 3rd Level character with Leather Armor (Rated +2), then it would go like this..

Ellis rolls 4d6 and gets 3, 4, 4, 2 = 13.
Jam's defense rating is 5 (3+2=5).
13 - 5 = 8 damage.

Jam starts with 72 Health Points. Jam now has 64 remaining.

Jam could have chosen to mitigate even more of that damage by spending a Stamina Point. If so, he might roll 4, 1, 2 for a total of 7, essentially diminishing damage down to 1, leaving him with 71 Health remaining.


That seems fine. Just needs testing and probabilities. As I read it now, defender seems to have a huge advantage by having both passive and active absorption; combat could go for a very long time if nobody gets lucky rolls. Stamina returns very fast also.

Maybe attacker could also spend Stamina to add effort into the blow?


I actually thought about that as I was rereading this post - great note, thank you! So.. I'm thinking of either a slower stamina re-up, or perhaps when you take an action that exerts you, you do not gain stamina for that turn. That or perhaps slower recovery in general. That would make more sense in a realism standpoint.

I also think Stamina could definitely donate dice to an attack pool! Exerting yourself to hit harder? For sure!

downeymb wrote:
Skullfingr wrote:
Your attack roll:
3d6 + Character Level + + Weapon Level + Weapon Sharpness + Skills/Misc.


Skills in this case being more like feats than skills. You add up the entire roll to get the sum. All additions are in dice. So..

A character at Level 4, Weapon level 2, normal sharpness (+0) and no additional skills would roll 9d6 (3d6+4d6+2d6).


Skullfingr wrote:
Damage is calculated as (Attack Roll + Weapon Rating) - Defense Rating.

If Ellis is a 3rd Level character with a Medium Rated Longsword (+1) and Jam is a 3rd Level character with Leather Armor (Rated +2), then it would go like this..

Ellis rolls 4d6 and gets 3, 4, 4, 2 = 13.
Jam's defense rating is 5 (3+2=5).
13 - 5 = 8 damage.


These doesn't line up. Per your first explanation of attack roll, if Ellis is a 3rd level character he should get 3d6 (base roll) + 3d6 (character level) + whatever his weapon level is + whatever sharpness his weapon is + any skills. So a minimum it should be 6d6, not 4d6. Right?

And then Ellis would add the result of that 6d6 attack roll + an additional 1d6 for the weapon rating, and compare it to Defense to determine damage. But there's nothing that determine whether it hits or not, just how much damage is taken. Or is the attack roll initially compared to defense to determine if you are hit before adding the weapon sharpness to determine damage?

What is the difference between weapon sharpness and weapon rating? Why is sharpness added to your attack roll but weapon rating is added to the damage? Why the nuance between two different weapon rolls? You may want to consider using only one weapon roll, but there are certainly design choices for having two aspects, such as if the rating determines whether it could break, sharpness determining the type of damage, just further additional choices for weapons, etc.

It appears like every attack hits, and your defense just determines how much damage you take. So your system does not allow for nuance between someone who is accurate but does little damage and someone who is not accurate but packs a huge punch. Everyone just always hits and does a bunch of damage. Not saying that is a good or a bad thing, just trying to understand what your system is.


Sharpness is variable, and can change during combat (weapon getting broken, or preparing your weapon before a fight) while a weapon's raw power is simply the amount of static damage it does.

You're right in my math though. I may have made a mistake in the example. Sorry.

The idea of spending stamina to roll indicates that you're "dodging". You're exerting yourself to get out of the way, so to speak. But yes, every attack technically hits in this system.

downeymb wrote:
Skullfingr wrote:
You can spend a stamina point to add 3d6 to your Defense. After that, you can add 1d6 per additional Stamina spent. Stamina regains, normally, at 1 per turn.


Seems like you should almost always spend that stamina point to get the 3d6 defense if it is just going to come back the next turn. Decisions should have tradeoffs to make them interesting, otherwise your decision is obvious and not really a decision. When is stamina not regained? How else is stamina used?


I've already decided that stamina will either recover more slowly, or not at all if you exert yourself during a combat situation. That way you only have a limited pool to use during combat unless you sacrifice a turn to rest, for example. Stamina can also add dice to attack. It will also have other advantages to use with specific Skills. I'm not sure what exactly to use it for other than that so I'm happy to take suggestions.

I do know that I want to have a "faint" system, where stamina coincides with Health in some way - such as losing all your stamina might make you have to roll to stay conscious or in the fight. I am also considering a trade-off economy between Health Pool and Stamina Pool so that one can possibly add to another. But that's.. beyond the scope of what I've created thus far.
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Alain Curato
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Skullfingr wrote:
This isn't the "normal" or any previously iterated d6 style system. What I mean is that Skills, as I have them right now, they're more like feats, powers or abilities than skills as you would find them in, say, World of Darkness or Pathfinder - where they represent your proficiency in a certain action. Certain Skills, however, will add to rolls involving specifc actions such as crafting, sneaking or lock picking.


I was not implying that you were making the D6 system again. :)

What I mean is that, in D&D, feats give you a fixed bonus (a +2 to something, +3 HP, more damage with bare fists etc.). You do not have, for example, "Hard to kill 1, 2, 3... 6", you have Hard to kill +3hp and maybe hard to kill +6hp (making it up on the fly).

A skill, on the other hand, is usually noted on a smooth scale that goes from 0 or 1 to 5, 6 or maybe 10 or 20 depending on the system.

If the ability adds a fixed number/makes the roll at all possible, then it is a feat. If you add a number which depends on your level, then it is a skill.

As per your description, those bonus dice are skill dice. Just like in the D6 system.

That changes nothing to your rules, just I do not feel it necessary to say "not a skill" when it actually is one.
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Ray M.
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Karkared wrote:
Skullfingr wrote:
This isn't the "normal" or any previously iterated d6 style system. What I mean is that Skills, as I have them right now, they're more like feats, powers or abilities than skills as you would find them in, say, World of Darkness or Pathfinder - where they represent your proficiency in a certain action. Certain Skills, however, will add to rolls involving specifc actions such as crafting, sneaking or lock picking.


I was not implying that you were making the D6 system again.

What I mean is that, in D&D, feats give you a fixed bonus (a +2 to something, +3 HP, more damage with bare fists etc.). You do not have, for example, "Hard to kill 1, 2, 3... 6", you have Hard to kill +3hp and maybe hard to kill +6hp (making it up on the fly).

A skill, on the other hand, is usually noted on a smooth scale that goes from 0 or 1 to 5, 6 or maybe 10 or 20 depending on the system.

If the ability adds a fixed number/makes the roll at all possible, then it is a feat. If you add a number which depends on your level, then it is a skill.

As per your description, those bonus dice are skill dice. Just like in the D6 system.

That changes nothing to your rules, just I do not feel it necessary to say "not a skill" when it actually is one.


Fair enough!

Just felt that it was necessary to point out that Skills in Three6 are comprised of a wider range of abilities and powers.
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M. B. Downey
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Skullfingr wrote:
Sharpness is variable, and can change during combat (weapon getting broken, or preparing your weapon before a fight) while a weapon's raw power is simply the amount of static damage it does.


So is "weapon power" the same thing as "weapon rating"? Are all longswords medium rated, or just the one in the example? What other weapons do you have? What determines if a weapon breaks in combat?
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Alain Curato
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Skullfingr wrote:
Just felt that it was necessary to point out that Skills in Three6 are comprised of a wider range of abilities and powers.


Ok that should get clearer with more examples.
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Ray M.
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downeymb wrote:
Skullfingr wrote:
Sharpness is variable, and can change during combat (weapon getting broken, or preparing your weapon before a fight) while a weapon's raw power is simply the amount of static damage it does.


So is "weapon power" the same thing as "weapon rating"? Are all longswords medium rated, or just the one in the example? What other weapons do you have? What determines if a weapon breaks in combat?


Weapon Rating and Raw Power are interchangeable right now. I'll get the words down as I develop the system. But yes, right now they're the same. Weapon Rating = Raw Attack Power = Damage Rating. This may change as the system is developed further along.

Each weapon is a category all its own, and a character will have different levels of skill in each weapon as well. Each weapon level comes with its own abilities and special stuff you can do with that weapon.

Weapons right now are..
- Hammer
- Sword & Shield
- Two Blades
- Sword
- Lance
- Axe
- Blowgun
- Bow


Sharpness determines weapon breakage. There are color codes right now that go..

Red - Orange - Yellow - Green - Blue - White - Purple


Red sharpness rated weapons are almost useless for damage, and could totally break during combat. I haven't worked out this mechanic just yet and I'm open to suggestions. Normal is Green, and that does "average" damage for that weapon. Normal damage, as it were. My thought on degrading during combat is when a weapon's inflicted damage is significantly reduced, it might move one slide downward on the sharpness color scale.

Karkared wrote:
Skullfingr wrote:
Just felt that it was necessary to point out that Skills in Three6 are comprised of a wider range of abilities and powers.


Ok that should get clearer with more examples.


Agreed! I'll add more examples as the mechanic develops and comes into itself, so to speak. Right now it's a pretty wide ranged idea that I'm trying to distill into something clear and cohesive.
 
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Skullfingr wrote:
Sharpness determines weapon breakage.…Red sharpness rated weapons are almost useless for damage, and could totally break during combat. I haven't worked out this mechanic just yet and I'm open to suggestions.

My immediate suggestion is that "sharpness" is counterintuitive as a name for a quality that applies to blunt as well as sharp weapons. "Weapon quality", perhaps?
 
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trystero11 wrote:
Skullfingr wrote:
Sharpness determines weapon breakage.…Red sharpness rated weapons are almost useless for damage, and could totally break during combat. I haven't worked out this mechanic just yet and I'm open to suggestions.

My immediate suggestion is that "sharpness" is counterintuitive as a name for a quality that applies to blunt as well as sharp weapons. "Weapon quality", perhaps?


Maybe the name just changes by damage type. Cutting is sharpness. Bludgeoning is Weight, or something?
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Alain Curato
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Just Power, Might? A powerful axe, sword, hammer... a mighty weapon.

Or a qualifier for Condition/State
Superb
Excellent
Good
Okay
Worn-down
Bad
Terrible
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Ray M.
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Karkared wrote:
Just Power, Might? A powerful axe, sword, hammer... a mighty weapon.

Or a qualifier for Condition/State
Superb
Excellent
Good
Okay
Worn-down
Bad
Terrible


What do you mean by Power or Might? Sorry, I'm lost with what you're suggesting here.
 
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Alain Curato
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A generic term instead of Sharpness.

A blade must be sharp, a mace must be heavy, etc. but however you name this quality, it finally makes their might.
 
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Ray M.
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Karkared wrote:
A generic term instead of Sharpness.

A blade must be sharp, a mace must be heavy, etc. but however you name this quality, it finally makes their might.


Oh, I see now!

Hmm.. I don't know. While I agree that Sharpness seems silly for blunt weapons.. Might kind of seems like a static value. I liked the idea of sharpness because it indicates that you can make a weapon do more damage if you prepare it properly, and indicates also that it could lose its sharpness and do less damage during combat and potentially break. To me, might doesn't really fit that bill, you know?
 
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This is kinda why I thought of adding a describer for Condition. Might is static, Condition changes. just didn't know how to put it exactly.
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Skullfingr wrote:
Oh, I see now!

Hmm.. I don't know. While I agree that Sharpness seems silly for blunt weapons.. Might kind of seems like a static value. I liked the idea of sharpness because it indicates that you can make a weapon do more damage if you prepare it properly, and indicates also that it could lose its sharpness and do less damage during combat and potentially break. To me, might doesn't really fit that bill, you know?


Could you sharpen a hammer?
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downeymb wrote:
Could you sharpen a hammer?


I was thinking bout it and realized that it would actually remove weight...
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Ray M.
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Maybe Honing?

A weapon is Honed.

You hone a weapon. Hone Rating. Green Hone. Purple Hone.

..your weapon is red honed and has a chance to break..
 
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Skullfingr wrote:
Maybe Honing?

A weapon is Honed.

You hone a weapon. Hone Rating. Green Hone. Purple Hone.

..your weapon is red honed and has a chance to break..


Honing is both distributive and ablative... you lose material in the process, just like any other sharpening method.

You can add spikes, tho'...

Also, circumferential points by filing can, despite removing material, reduce the initial contact point considerably, allowing easier shattering of bone and deformation of rigid armor, despite removing material.

Further, you can increase weight and adjust balance by adding iron bands.
 
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Skullfingr wrote:
I also think Stamina could definitely donate dice to an attack pool! Exerting yourself to hit harder? For sure!


Back to this subject, I can see Stamina being used as a bonus source for many other things:
- dealing another attack in the same turn (2 Stamina)
- moving faster (1 Stamina per meter)
- pushing back or resisting being pushed (Stamina cost depending on weapons, the difference between Strength feats etc.)
- gathering mana faster for spells
- resisting spells that have physical effects (not mental or spiritual spells)

You could have feats making it easier to inflict/resist of these effects.

1 point per turn for all this would not be much.
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Karkared wrote:
Skullfingr wrote:
I also think Stamina could definitely donate dice to an attack pool! Exerting yourself to hit harder? For sure!


Back to this subject, I can see Stamina being used as a bonus source for many other things:
- dealing another attack in the same turn (2 Stamina)
- moving faster (1 Stamina per meter)
- pushing back or resisting being pushed (Stamina cost depending on weapons, the difference between Strength feats etc.)
- gathering mana faster for spells
- resisting spells that have physical effects (not mental or spiritual spells)

You could have feats making it easier to inflict/resist of these effects.

1 point per turn for all this would not be much.


This is great stuff, and I have every intention of having every pool (Health, Attack & Stamina) have more than one use!

I haven't decided, yet, how to handle multiple attacks. Divvying dice from the normal attack pools seems like the easiest method.

I also haven't figured out speed yet. Hunter level might have something to do with it, since Hunters in general are known to be fast.

Magic is another wildcard. Like I want to have it but I haven't written up a good thing for it and have debated on not really having it at all.

Thoughts or suggestions?
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Health & Stamina might get mixed up in people's mind. Attack and Stamina might also overlap in some of their uses. And last, if there is Attack there should be Defence, right?

I would suggest making each type of magic a feat, with a Power pool.

Like, you have the Hypnosis feat. Hypnosis allows you to cast Sleep (CL plus feat level), Suggestion (CL + FL -2 dice), and Control (CL + FL -4 dice) vs the target's level and Willpower feats.

You cannot cast a spell if you do not have at least one die to roll before adding your Power pool - you simply have not learnt/discovered this spell.

This, or you decide that magic is always a thing of the scenario. All spells are rituals that require difficult timing, harvesting, and casting (see Maelstrom Domesday for examples). The exact nature and difficulty of it depends on how willing the gm is to let the pc/npc twist the game.
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