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Paul Dale
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Nope. Some are. Some aren't.

The exception would be D&D which always seems to be decently successful.

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...124 to run fleeing from the mountain. ...125 to use a rope to climb the cliff. ...126 to quickly cast "summon stairs." ...127 to dodge under the falling rocks.
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Honestly, I don't care about tracking success.

I love playing all types of RPGs, from big commercial names to many Indie games, and while I certainly would like all RPG creators to make boatloads of money for their work, I know it isn't likely. And whether or not it is highly successful doesn't factor into whether or not I'll play an RPG. So there isn't much reason for me to care about success... other than making sure content creators I like do get some money from me to keep on making RPGs!
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Kind of: WotC or Paizo published it? Yup. Even if it sucks, it will still sell better than the second tier.
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philip.dutre wrote:
SteamCraft wrote:
trystero11 wrote:
William Goldman (RIP) wrote:
NOBODY KNOWS ANYTHING. Not one person in the entire motion picture field knows for a certainty what's going to work. Every time out it's a guess—and, if you're lucky, an educated one.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Adventures_in_the_Screen_Trade

As for movies, so for RPGs, and anything, really.


Not necessarily true anymore. Di$ney has it pretty much down - at least for Marvel. There is an entire process from conception, to filming, to secret screenings, to reshoots, to promotion, etc. The production is very formulaic now.

They tried doing the same with the past three Star Wars films. It has not gone over as well for the last two of them. Seems Star Wars fans don't exactly fit the same mold as superhero fans and are much harder to please.


You’re right about the formulaic production for movies such as the ones you mention, but then, I don’t consider such movies original or creative. I think they’re mostly commercial junk. But to be honest, I don’t belong to the target demographic anymore ;-)

I sincerely hope that in our little hobby we don’t go down the path of formulaic adventures. The equivalent of the above movies would be a generic dungeon with some easy monsters up front, a difficult trap in the middle, and a big fight at the end. Boring as hell.

P.s. Funny tou use Di$ney. Reminds of the old Usenet days when everyone would use T$R.


We might go down the route of formulaic adventures if adventurers sold really well. Maybe WotC needs to set up some focus us and budget in rewrites? Still, I am not sure it will work.

Yeah, I use Di$ney because of the T$R thing. Just as T$R gave us a gilded age of RPGs, Di$ney has done the same with movies. It looks like a golden age, but it is just gold on the surface. Buying Lucasfilm was the last straw for me. I pretty much agree with George's assessment of what they did to Star Wars and his essential regret on selling it to them.
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No, not until I've read it.
You did mean successful for me, right?
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Other than big companies usually doing better, I have no idea. I still don't understand why we aren't all playing Hero.
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Translation:

"Highly successful" = "successful within the worldwide community of people who enjoy playing RPGs in the first place".

Hope that helps.

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In all honesty, I don't think about it. And now that the question has been raised, I honestly don't care enough to think about it in the future.

Popularity means nothing to my enjoyment of the game, though I do want the various contributors to be able to make a good wage off of the enjoyment that I get from the product. Outside of that? Meh.
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sdonohue wrote:
Other than big companies usually doing better, I have no idea. I still don't understand why we aren't all playing Hero.

Most people hate doing division.
Most gamers don't like needing a calculator to generate characters in under 30 minutes.
Hero System presumes players are both rational and reasonable; my experience says George and Steve were wrong in that assumption.
Hero System also presumes a reasonable, rational, and cooperative GM who actually checks the math. That is a VERY unlikely situation for the gamers I've met. (I only checked when I used Hero because I was essentially generating their PC's for them, with their input.)

They cut a good portion of their audience with their removal of figuring the secondary attributes. Changes that fundamental remove people from the fanbase (despite having the old books). Steve's goal was to make it more accessible to new players; by the accounts I've heard, it's caused more losses than gains, but still sells well enough to keep it going for more stuff.


By many accounts, tho', Hero has been highly successful.. At times, it's been top-10; it's been out for nearly 40 years, and has largely been in print the majority of that, and in distribution for almost all of that time.
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Mallet wrote:


Translation:

"Highly successful" = "successful within the worldwide community of people who enjoy playing RPGs in the first place".

Hope that helps.



To me that sounds like narrowing it down to D&D.
Roger, can you please give some examples of "highly successful" RPGs by your understanding? I'm not interesting in disputing them, just curious to better understand what you're thinking of.
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jasri wrote:
Mallet wrote:


Translation:

"Highly successful" = "successful within the worldwide community of people who enjoy playing RPGs in the first place".

Hope that helps.



To me that sounds like narrowing it down to D&D.
Roger, can you please give some examples of "highly successful" RPGs by your understanding? I'm not interesting in disputing them, just curious to better understand what you're thinking of.

To be fair, Pathfinder & Starfinder also fit that...
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aramis wrote:
jasri wrote:
Mallet wrote:


Translation:

"Highly successful" = "successful within the worldwide community of people who enjoy playing RPGs in the first place".

Hope that helps.



To me that sounds like narrowing it down to D&D.
Roger, can you please give some examples of "highly successful" RPGs by your understanding? I'm not interesting in disputing them, just curious to better understand what you're thinking of.

To be fair, Pathfinder & Starfinder also fit that...


To be fair, Pathfinder is D&D just with a different name and a few rule changes.
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ICv2 rankings (ENworld chart) only show relative success in the FLGS segment of the market, not actual numbers overall. So while Pathfinder for some time took over the first spot usually held by D&D, we don't know if it ever sold as well. Probably not.
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SteamCraft wrote:
aramis wrote:
jasri wrote:
Mallet wrote:


Translation:

"Highly successful" = "successful within the worldwide community of people who enjoy playing RPGs in the first place".

Hope that helps.



To me that sounds like narrowing it down to D&D.
Roger, can you please give some examples of "highly successful" RPGs by your understanding? I'm not interesting in disputing them, just curious to better understand what you're thinking of.

To be fair, Pathfinder & Starfinder also fit that...


To be fair, Pathfinder is D&D just with a different name and a few rule changes.


The number of rules changes and additions is profound enough that the characters cannot be readily cross-used; for me, that's the point where your statement becomes false.
For PF 2E, they are not even PF 1E compatible, let alone 3.x/d20...
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jasri wrote:
ICv2 rankings (ENworld chart) only show relative success in the FLGS segment of the market, not actual numbers overall. So while Pathfinder for some time took over the first spot usually held by D&D, we don't know if it ever sold as well. Probably not.


The numbers for Pathfinder and 4E sales during the 4E era were known. PF did, during 4E's run, outsell D&D 4E on a per timeframe basis.

Mearls has mentioned that, too.

As for 5E, of course pathfinder isn't outselling 5E... because 5E has beaten all other editions of D&D in terms of sales, both per year and lifetime. (At least, according to Mearls.)

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aramis wrote:
The numbers for Pathfinder and 4E sales during the 4E era were known. PF did, during 4E's run, outsell D&D 4E on a per timeframe basis.

Mearls has mentioned that, too.


I'm interested in sources regarding this. Can you please provide them, William?
(I've just linked the ICv2 rankings, which show that PF did outsell 4e, but it doesn't say that PF sold as well as, say 3.5e did.)

Quote:
As for 5E, of course pathfinder isn't outselling 5E... because 5E has beaten all other editions of D&D in terms of sales, both per year and lifetime. (At least, according to Mearls.)

Not quite true, but close enough.
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